California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am • Hacker News Board

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#331

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 1:21 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #309

dragonwriter wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I dont know what you mean with better, my two sons are top performers in their school and ... presumably they, then, can explain to you the difference between anecdote and data.

They will first have to teach you the difference between taking part in a sentence out its full context and then actually being intellectually honest and not just strawman them. One of the first things I taught them. A school network applied to all of New York state is hardly an anecdote and it's frankly telling how quick you and others where to jump onto that idea. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/more-on-the-phenomen…

> A school network applied to all of New York state is hardly an anecdote

Maybe another thing your top performing students in their top performing school network can explain to you is the difference between evidence and irrelevancy; specifically, that, with California being the first state to mandate a later start time, its unusual for schools to start later (New York is experimenting with some later start times, but very few schools have them [0]), so, really, neither your sons’ status nor those of their network indicate (as evidence or even anecdote) anything contrary to the research at issue here (nor, to take the next step, necessarily would their school even if a sizable number of others did start significantly later unless it was similar to those later-starting schools in all other respects besides start time; for some reason you've posted an argument from a libertarian propaganda mill which does nothing relative to the discussion but make a case as to why you raising it in this discussion is the farthest thing possible from relevant for that reason.)

I get that you are proud of your sons and like their school network. I can't figure out why you think either are relevant to the matter at hand.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#332

Post by ahje » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 1:22 PM UTC

dagenix wrote: post #227

Alupis wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What about later and later bed times? This is the real factor. When I was a kid - it was in bed, lights out and go to sleep at 9pm the latest during school nights - strictly enforced by my parents. Now I regularly see small children (< 10 years old) out at the store past 10pm or 11pm on school nights.

In my day I had to walk uphill to school - both ways!!

Me too -- it happens when both one's home and school are on two separate hills.

School didn't start until 08:00 though, and it was definitely too early if you asked teenage me.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#333

Post by ahje » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 1:25 PM UTC

udkl wrote: post #325

mcv wrote: post #305

> " one-quarter will need to wait an additional 31 to 60 minutes to get going." So one quarter of Californian schools were starting between 7 and 7:30? I'm surprised there haven't been revolts in the streets about that. That's completely ridiculous. Apparently this is to accommodate parents who need to leave for work at ridiculously early hours, but if you want to accommodate parents, why only those, and not the pare…

> why not take your kids to pre-school care? That’s a very privileged view. I would imagine most of the country cannot afford any sort of paid external care.

I think it's a Western European view. Such services are often free or at least heavily subsidized here.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#334

Post by chaosbutters » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 1:32 PM UTC

socalnate1 wrote: post #3

My high school started at 7am. I also took the bus; which picked up around 6:15am; so I usually woke up around 5:45am during the week. I would often nod off during my first or second period; and routinely took 2-3 hour naps when I got home from school; which screwed up my ability to fall asleep early at night or get much homework done. I sometimes wonder what my academics would have been like if I was actually awake…

should've slept during school like the pros ;)

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#335

Post by greedo » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 1:33 PM UTC

hwbehrens wrote: post #123

lonelappde wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are claiming that poor parents will changed their school choice based on the availability of parent-teacher conferences? And that the problem of poverty is overemployment, not underemployment?

I can't speak for the Bay Area, but my region exhibits similar patterns. Consider an example. A "good" school might have 100 slots for out-of-area kindergartners, distributed via a lottery system. However, the lottery system uses a biased distribution which preferentially selects from students who have been on the waitlist longer. This system is easily defensible by school administrators in the name of "fairness" to…

Perhaps I'm being naive, but most educators I've known are on the liberal side of the spectrum. Wouldn't barriers described here be more on the side of "never attribute to malice...?"

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#336

Post by sjg007 » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 1:40 PM UTC

topkai22 wrote: post #266

sjg007 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No buses in California or NYC for the most part kids take public transportation.

That doesn't sound right. A quick check on LA Unified's web site says they operate ~1300 buses, while all of LA's bus network operates 2600 buses. While only 42000 of 734,641 students are taking the district provided buses, I'd bet a huge portion of the remaining aren't taking public transit, but are walking, are being driven by a parent, or driving themselves. While I don't have data, I'd be willing to bet that area…

California doesn't require it except in special cases and due to impacted budgets it is diminishing. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/california-school-bus-service...

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#337

Post by josefresco » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 1:40 PM UTC

meristem wrote: post #34

Unfortunately, the school systems still rely on one parent at home. It is not just drop off and pick up times: school activities, parent-teacher conferences, etc. For example, in the SF Unified District, school tours for parents of kids entering kindergarten, middle school and high school are during the school hours, mostly in the morning. It is all built around the expectation of a parent at home or a job structure…

Anecdotally, parent teacher conferences in my area (MA) utilize a "sign up sheet" where you can pick a time, starting in the afternoon and extending into the evening. Furthermore, orientation events were always scheduled in the evening. I suggest you get involved in your local school board / parent groups.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#338

Post by irrational » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 1:42 PM UTC

rz2k wrote: post #18

non-entity wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been confused by TV shows showing kids leaving for school and it's bright outside with the whole family awake. Growing up, it was dark when we got up for school and just barely sun up (depending on the season still dark) by the time we left to get on the bus.

On the shortest days of the year in Los Angeles[1], there is civil twilight around 6:30am and full daylight before 7am. Maybe the writers, who even have children, live close to the schools they attend. [1] https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/los-angeles

Yeah, here in Oregon it is already pitch dark at 7am and we are only halfway through October.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#339

Post by rkop » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 1:43 PM UTC

35787 wrote: post #90

armenarmen wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re the only place that most people will ever experience physical violence.

This is true for me. Public schools are so horrible that it drives me insane just to think about it. And people brush it off because of some vague notion that there’s no other choice. Look at billy eilish. She’s fantastic and very successful and she was homeschooled. Palmer luckey who founded oculus and is now worth something like 500 million dollars, homeschooled. “I can’t afford homeschooling. I have never even tri…

I had to look up this billy eilish and what is so fantastic about her?

Palmer - right.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#340

Post by irrational » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 1:46 PM UTC

shakna wrote: post #254

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Bus availability is something for bus companies to worry about, not schools. If you have all 3 classes of students going to school at the same time, your bus costs are going to be 3 times as high. It doesn't matter if it's public or private, that's just how it works.

> If you have all 3 classes of students going to school at the same time, your bus costs are going to be 3 times as high. It doesn't matter if it's public or private, that's just how it works. In Australia, it is also normal that all 3 classes of students also start at around the same time. (8:45-9:00am). This doesn't seem to be a problem that the public transit system seems incapable of handling.

What is a public transit system? What a quaint idea.

Seriously though, public transit is such a joke in most parts of the USA (especially the rural areas) that this is basically a non-starter.

I live in a part of the country that does have a pretty good public transit system, I just checked on taking public transit from my neighborhood to my son's high school and discovered that it's not possible. There is no public transit (bus, light rail, tram, trolley - all of which we have) within 2 miles of the high school.