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California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

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Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#271

Post by [deleted] »

kbrackbill wrote: post #140
corey_moncure wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are grade schoolers doing assignments that can't reasonably be completed on a raspberry pi grade computer or lower? It's difficult for me to imagine it, or the family that has two working parents yet legitimately can't fit $40 into the budget over the entirety of their child's career in school.

That's a little disingenuous, you can't just use a raspberry pi by itself. You need an SD card, keyboard, mouse (probably), display (maybe could use a TV for this if you have one). It seems like it'd be at least $100. That's still not a ton, but for a family working a bunch of minimum wage or gig jobs it's not nothing. edit: not to mention internet, router, wifi dongle or ethernet cord, etc.

[deleted]

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#272

Post by arcticbull »

conanbatt wrote: post #252
arcticbull wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, it's science ( https://www.cdc.gov/features/school-start-times/index.html ).

Science says 8:30, law says 8:00, so the state is not following the state's recommendation. Also, what is best for an ideal scenario for the idealized kid is not the same as what is best for the parents. Finally the biggest perpetrator of sending kids early is precisely public schooling, private schooling has variety that suits the parent's choices. What is the best public policy then? school vouchers, and let parent…

> What is the best public policy then? school vouchers, and let parents decide.

That may work, it does in Sweden apparently, but your conclusion certainly doesn’t follow from your premise. This feels like classic junior engineer baby-with-the-bath water thinking. It’s easier to throw a system out and start over than make the modifications to your existing system but somehow it never does turn out exactly right, more like a ruined fresco meme.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#273

Post by latch »

cowsandmilk wrote: post #269
AYBABTME wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an engineer, I have to pursue a lot of "keeping up with trends" on my own time. I spend my own time setting up my computers. I get a stipend for professional development, but I bare the bulk of the cost and time (most of the time). I often work a lot more than 40h. I think all that you mention is not uncommon for professionals who want to develop their skills in a continuous manner. I could say the same for lawyer…

Sure, but no one claims you have 3 months of vacation when you are spending time doing those things...

My mother was a teacher in Ontario. She insisted her salary should be looked at over a 12 month period, not ~9.5 month. Even though for those ~2.5 months, she was free to do whatever she wanted, including taking on additional full time work (though, more often than not, she vacationed).

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#274

Post by archi42 »

rdlecler1 wrote: post #260
_coveredInBees wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the frustration, but I think it is absurd to expect teachers and school administrators (who are woefully underpaid, especially in the Bay area) to accommodate working parents by working extra hours just for the parent's benefit. It's a hard enough job as it is, what with the poor pay, large workload, dealing with entitled, helicopter parents and the diminishing societal appreciation for their contributio…

There’s a 20:1 to 30:1 ratio so are you suggesting it’s better for 20-30 working, single parent families? Maybe the government should pay teachers more and pay less on defense and we’d have a more productive society.

In an ideal world, routing money from defence anywhere makes for a more productive society (except maybe black jack and hookers - and I am not even sure on that).

Of course investing into the future (kids and environment) has the biggest long-term impact and should be top priority.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#275

Post by archi42 »

rockinghigh wrote: post #222
gundmc wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying teachers don't deserve to be paid more, but I was surprised to see how much Bay Area teachers make. It's public info for public schools.[1] In Santa Clara County, with no experience, starting salary is $71000. It increases on a schedule each year up to over $131000. Honestly, the job security, structured pay, and 3 months vacation per year is a pretty darn good deal. [1] - https://www.santaclarausd.org…

You picked an outlier. Most schools districts in the Bay Area (including San Francisco) have starting salaries for teachers in the $50k-$60k range. And in my experience, teachers work a lot more than 40 hours a week. I picked 3 randomly below: Redwood City: https://www.rcsdk8.net/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?modul... San Mateo: http://www.smfcsd.net/en/assets/files/Employment%20and%20HR/... San Francisco: https://…

Enen with tech workers complaining about the high rents, I wonder how bad teachers fare? Or are these districts in "cheap" areas?

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#276

Post by AYBABTME »

cowsandmilk wrote: post #269
AYBABTME wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an engineer, I have to pursue a lot of "keeping up with trends" on my own time. I spend my own time setting up my computers. I get a stipend for professional development, but I bare the bulk of the cost and time (most of the time). I often work a lot more than 40h. I think all that you mention is not uncommon for professionals who want to develop their skills in a continuous manner. I could say the same for lawyer…

Sure, but no one claims you have 3 months of vacation when you are spending time doing those things...

No, but this is my free time and how I use it. If I chose to do that during my vacations, no one would be "well poor you, you don't really have 4 weeks of vacation a year, since you decided to pursue professional development during these weeks". People would simply say that I chose to use my free time to do these things, and some of these things are quite essential to my continued employment.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#277

Post by chrischen »

gundmc wrote: post #212
_coveredInBees wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the frustration, but I think it is absurd to expect teachers and school administrators (who are woefully underpaid, especially in the Bay area) to accommodate working parents by working extra hours just for the parent's benefit. It's a hard enough job as it is, what with the poor pay, large workload, dealing with entitled, helicopter parents and the diminishing societal appreciation for their contributio…

I'm not saying teachers don't deserve to be paid more, but I was surprised to see how much Bay Area teachers make. It's public info for public schools.[1] In Santa Clara County, with no experience, starting salary is $71000. It increases on a schedule each year up to over $131000. Honestly, the job security, structured pay, and 3 months vacation per year is a pretty darn good deal. [1] - https://www.santaclarausd.org…

My teachers in suburban Michigan had starting salaries in the $70ks... in 2007.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#278

Post by watwut »

_coveredInBees wrote: post #185
francisofascii wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At many schools the before care/after care staff is not comprised of teachers. But I bet some might sign up for extra hours either before or after school for extra cash.

Sure, but all the activities the OP complains about - parent teacher conferences, kindergarten/classroom tours, etc. all require the actual teachers involvement so it seems perfectly reasonable that those activities would occur during regular working hours. Plenty of schools offer before/after care for families with working parents so that they can drop-off/pick up their kids before/after work. I don't think that is…

It is unreasonable to work with assumption that parents don't work or penalize kids for parents (moms to be precise) working.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#279

Post by ducttapecrown »

shakna wrote: post #254
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Bus availability is something for bus companies to worry about, not schools. If you have all 3 classes of students going to school at the same time, your bus costs are going to be 3 times as high. It doesn't matter if it's public or private, that's just how it works.

> If you have all 3 classes of students going to school at the same time, your bus costs are going to be 3 times as high. It doesn't matter if it's public or private, that's just how it works. In Australia, it is also normal that all 3 classes of students also start at around the same time. (8:45-9:00am). This doesn't seem to be a problem that the public transit system seems incapable of handling.

Australia has less people in it than California.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#280

Post by yilugurlu »

guiambros wrote: post #166
ThomPete wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not anectdotal and i would urge you to point to the scientific studies so we can debate their methodology and “scientific” base. I’m too old to just take these kind of studies as science without looking at the details. Now you dont have to take my examples for more than they are but they sure contradict the claims being made in this thread and onna state level.

Why We Sleep [1], by Matthew Walker, PhD. Page 92: " Adolescents face two other harmful challenges in their struggle to obtain sufficient sleep as their brains continue to develop. The first is a change in their circadian rhythm. The second is early school start times. " Also: " ... the circadian rhythm of a young child runs on an earlier schedule. Children therefore become sleepy earlier and wake up earlier than the…

I just came here to see this citation :)
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