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California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

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Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#211

Post by danbolt »

ThomPete wrote: post #149
PeterisP wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If school starts at 7:30, then that kid isn't waking up fresh at 7, they have to be woken up significantly earlier. I shudder to think of the other examples in the comments which have to already be in school at 7.

If kids get to bed around 8pm they will normally be up at around 6-6.30 plenty of time for most to get ready. But sure if they are put to bed at 9-10 then its going to be tougher.

Are most people like this? I’ve always struggled with having myself fall asleep before 10:00pm even as a preteen. I once tried putting myself on a schedule for two months, but I’d just lie awake until later at night when I’d finally doze off.

The moment I got into university and could move my schedule my GPA went up two grades.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#212

Post by gundmc »

_coveredInBees wrote: post #134
meristem wrote: post #34

Unfortunately, the school systems still rely on one parent at home. It is not just drop off and pick up times: school activities, parent-teacher conferences, etc. For example, in the SF Unified District, school tours for parents of kids entering kindergarten, middle school and high school are during the school hours, mostly in the morning. It is all built around the expectation of a parent at home or a job structure…

I understand the frustration, but I think it is absurd to expect teachers and school administrators (who are woefully underpaid, especially in the Bay area) to accommodate working parents by working extra hours just for the parent's benefit. It's a hard enough job as it is, what with the poor pay, large workload, dealing with entitled, helicopter parents and the diminishing societal appreciation for their contributio…

I'm not saying teachers don't deserve to be paid more, but I was surprised to see how much Bay Area teachers make. It's public info for public schools.[1]

In Santa Clara County, with no experience, starting salary is $71000. It increases on a schedule each year up to over $131000.

Honestly, the job security, structured pay, and 3 months vacation per year is a pretty darn good deal.

[1] - https://www.santaclarausd.org/site/handlers/filedownload.ash...

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#213

Post by boomboomsubban »

ThomPete wrote: post #207
_coveredInBees wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone else already replied with links so I'm not going to rehash here, but your parent post was the very definition of anecdote. You tried to refute entire studies and the current scientific consensus with a single example of how your kids do great academically despite waking up early for school. That is literally what an anecdote is.

Here is exactly what I wrote: , my two sons are top performers in their school and the school network is top 3% performing in NY state. I wasn't just talking about my two sons but about the school network in New York state. That's not anecdotal what so ever. Here are the actual results from Success Academy: https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/more-on-the-phenomenal-eye-po... How is that anecdotal?

"This one school performs well and it has a start time before 8" is anecdotal evidence. Only one school's performance or start time is considered.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#214

Post by ThomPete »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #213
ThomPete wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is exactly what I wrote: , my two sons are top performers in their school and the school network is top 3% performing in NY state. I wasn't just talking about my two sons but about the school network in New York state. That's not anecdotal what so ever. Here are the actual results from Success Academy: https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/more-on-the-phenomenal-eye-po... How is that anecdotal?

"This one school performs well and it has a start time before 8" is anecdotal evidence. Only one school's performance or start time is considered.

Not single school, school network! I don't know how more clear I can be.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#215

Post by jclulow »

yellowapple wrote: post #177
georgeburdell wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like an elementary school in my Bay Area district. Lottery admissions. Parents are required to volunteer ~10 hours per year and pay for uniforms. The school is 90% Asian even though Asians make up 1/3 of the city. Another one that's more art focused and requires 4 hours of volunteering PER WEEK is majority white even though whites are 1/3 of the population.

> and pay for uniforms It's bad enough that the school enforces a school uniform in the first place, let alone has the nerve to make parents pay for it.

There are lots of benefits to uniforms. In NSW (Australia) public schools have uniforms, and parents pay for them. Low income families are generally able to obtain financial assistance through some grant, or fundraising programme; sometimes through donated uniforms.

Uniforms actually help with socio-economic gaps: everybody dresses the same, regardless of whether you can afford more expensive status symbol clothing or not.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#216

Post by [deleted] »

_coveredInBees wrote: post #134
meristem wrote: post #34

Unfortunately, the school systems still rely on one parent at home. It is not just drop off and pick up times: school activities, parent-teacher conferences, etc. For example, in the SF Unified District, school tours for parents of kids entering kindergarten, middle school and high school are during the school hours, mostly in the morning. It is all built around the expectation of a parent at home or a job structure…

I understand the frustration, but I think it is absurd to expect teachers and school administrators (who are woefully underpaid, especially in the Bay area) to accommodate working parents by working extra hours just for the parent's benefit. It's a hard enough job as it is, what with the poor pay, large workload, dealing with entitled, helicopter parents and the diminishing societal appreciation for their contributio…

[deleted]

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#217

Post by randomComee »

meristem wrote: post #34

Unfortunately, the school systems still rely on one parent at home. It is not just drop off and pick up times: school activities, parent-teacher conferences, etc. For example, in the SF Unified District, school tours for parents of kids entering kindergarten, middle school and high school are during the school hours, mostly in the morning. It is all built around the expectation of a parent at home or a job structure…

Unfortunately, entitled parents still think everyone should bend over backwards for them because they have children. It’s madness.

Having children means sacrificing _something_. Maybe one of the parents needs to cut back on work hours OR stay home completely (and that doesn’t mean it should be the woman).

Can’t afford that? You don’t get to eat your cake and have it too. Maybe you shouldn’t have kids. Jesus.

School is not daycare. Grandparents are not automatic babysitters. Friends don’t have to love your spawn.

Nobody should have to give two poops that you chose to have kids. That is YOUR choice, not ours.

It’s not millennials or boomers or whatever “generation” ruining the world — it’s entitlement. So many parents want to be more-than-equal. It’s disgusting.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#218

Post by danbolt »

polynomial wrote: post #91
malandrew wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Geographical latitude can make a big difference. Right now, there is a 30 minute difference between sunrise in Los Angeles (6:59am) and Seattle (7:29am). Given that most US television programming has historically been produced in Los Angeles, it's not surprising that we should see daylight more commonly depicted during waking hours than what many Americans experience.

Presumably this reverses during the opposite season.

I think you’d have to be in the Southern Hemisphere to notice such a thing.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#219

Post by barry-cotter »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #193
btilly wrote: post #55

Wonderful. Now can we pay attention to all of the research saying that homework creates stress but doesn't work, and have schools stop assigning so much? More precisely, the research shows that homework done right helps, done wrong hurts, and the result is that more homework increases the correlation between parent's socioeconomic status and student performance. But on average is approximately net neutral for learnin…

You are misinformed about research on homework. Even when you control for socioeconomic status homework has a large positive impact. [This is a nice review of many papers]( http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/mar0... ). The only place where homework is questionable is for very young children, like in kindergarten.

Gains from homework in primary school are derisory and not much better in middle school. Even in high school the gains are a quarter of a standard deviation. Not worth the enormous cost in time, sleep and stress.

———

Homework and attainment in primary schools

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1080/014119299025...

The findings indicated that the highest test scores were achieved by those pupils who reported doing homework ‘once a month’ in each of the core subjects. Homework reported more frequently than ‘once a month’ was generally associated with lower attainment. Multilevel models that controlled for important variables did not lend support to the ‘more is better’ view of homework.

Special Topic / The Case For and Against Homework

http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/mar0...

Although teachers across the K–12 spectrum commonly assign homework, research has produced no clear-cut consensus on the benefits of homework at the early elementary grade levels. In his early meta-analysis, Cooper (1989a) reported the following effect sizes (p. 71): Grades 4–6: ES = .15 (Percentile gain = 6) Grades 7–9: ES = .31 (Percentile gain = 12) Grades 10–12: ES = .64 (Percentile gain = 24)

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#220

Post by indecisive_user »

ThomPete wrote: post #149
PeterisP wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If school starts at 7:30, then that kid isn't waking up fresh at 7, they have to be woken up significantly earlier. I shudder to think of the other examples in the comments which have to already be in school at 7.

If kids get to bed around 8pm they will normally be up at around 6-6.30 plenty of time for most to get ready. But sure if they are put to bed at 9-10 then its going to be tougher.

So no sports or after school clubs?

8pm bedtime is great with no other obligations, but I was regularly at school events past then (lacrosse games, robotics, quiz bowl, etc.), so that schedule would have prevented me from doing a lot of things I enjoyed in high school

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