California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am • Hacker News Board

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#261

Post by dunnevens » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:19 AM UTC

sologoub wrote: post #236

shakna wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are grade schoolers doing assignments that can't reasonably be completed on a raspberry pi grade computer or lower? Any assignment that makes use of a proprietary software that the school has purchased. That is to say that there are plenty of times when a student _must_ use X software that only runs on platform Y, and the school very rarely takes into account what platforms the student may have available to them. I…

That’s why Chromebooks are a lot better choice - $150 buys you a reasonable example and you also don’t have to worry about kid breaking it and loosing weeks of work. Example: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/dell-11-6-chromebook-intel-cele... And for older kids, there’s Linux support, etc.

In reply to the viability of Chromebooks: I have a 4 year old Asus Flip with a Rockchip processor & 4 GB. I still use it because I love the very small laptop form factor. Despite having a processor which would be jealous of the Celeron, it keeps up just fine. Most common websites do fine. YouTube is smooth. FB is mostly smooth. Google does a great job with Chrome OS. I’d have no hesitation buying a Celeron Chromebook for a kid. As long as it was new enough to have at least 5 years of support left, and had a minimum of 4 gigs memory, they should be fine for the foreseeable future.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#262

Post by jedberg » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:22 AM UTC

ultrarunner wrote: post #241

crooked-v wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 3 months vacation per year This perception is usually pretty inaccurate. There's no time given during the school year for essentials like curriculum development, continuing education requirements, training new teachers, etc, so that eats up time during the summer 'break'. https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/07/myth-o... > Klem says she’s spending the rest of her summer this year attending meetings, d…

I appreciate the perspective that you’re coming from, but I come from a family of educators. They do have occasional in service days over the summer and obviously are expected back at work a week or so before classes start. Other than that, it very much is a three-month vacation, one that shaped a large part of my childhood.

The distribution seems bi-modal. My wife was a teacher, and she had maybe one free week the whole summer, between development classes, curriculum work, and so on. On some summer days I would leave work at 7pm and then join her in her classroom until 8 or 9pm where she was just finishing up a 12 hour day.

Then there were other teachers at the school who took off on the last day of school and you didn't see them again until the week before school started. Those were the teachers that were still teaching material from 30 years ago that all the parents dreaded their kids getting.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#263

Post by quickthrower2 » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:25 AM UTC

Camas wrote: post #25

dsalzman wrote: post #4

School children are sleeping on average 1 hour less than theirs peers did 50 years ago. This has been driven by earlier and earlier school start times. Sleep deprivation in school age children has been linked to lower test scores, lower knowledge retention, higher rates of "trouble making". Really happy to see these laws getting put in place!

This true for other countries or just the US?

Absolutely not for UK & Australia.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#264

Post by quickthrower2 » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:27 AM UTC

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #208

rubicon33 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children can still wake up early. They're just not forced to PERFORM well early. You have to understand that not everyone does well in the morning. It's completely unfair to expect everyone to get up and be functioning at the same level in the early morning. That's going to advantage some, and disadvantage others. That's what this is about. Nothing stops the early bird from getting up early and doing all the things y…

It’s not about fairness. Why is everything about ‘fairness’? It’s not a biological impediment. Getting up early is not a super power nor is childhood a disability. Getting up early and getting an early start gives you a buffer towards the end of the day. If you start late and run out of time, the whole rest of the day will be derailed. Anyways..just my 2c. I am not here to argue because I have no dog in this fight.

You assume similar sleep requirements in children and adults.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#265

Post by colordrops » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:34 AM UTC

beefalo wrote: post #242

colordrops wrote: post #70

The implied assumption in all this discussion is that everyone stays up late so 7am doesn't work. Perhaps the question should be why society is so geared for waking hours shifted partly into the night. Perhaps people should wake with the sun and sleep soon after dark. But so much entertainment is scheduled during the evening, and everyone is so deeply entrenched in their habits.

If students are to wake with the sun in winter months, that would mean waking up at 8AM where I went to school. You would need to start school around 9:30AM since some students spent over 1 hour on the bus.

Ok, so then school times should be adjusted for time of year and latitude, rather than blindly sticking to the same time everywhere.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#266

Post by topkai22 » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:34 AM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #179

topkai22 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School bussing in the United States has an incredibly complex legal history related to desegration and civil rights. Moving to a fee for use system is probably legally impossible(or at least very difficult) in most of the United States. There are also reasonably strong public sector unions representing school bus drivers, who in many areas have gotten various job requirements codified that make outsourcing difficult.…

No buses in California or NYC for the most part kids take public transportation.

That doesn't sound right. A quick check on LA Unified's web site says they operate ~1300 buses, while all of LA's bus network operates 2600 buses. While only 42000 of 734,641 students are taking the district provided buses, I'd bet a huge portion of the remaining aren't taking public transit, but are walking, are being driven by a parent, or driving themselves.

While I don't have data, I'd be willing to bet that areas like the Inland Empire, Bakersfield, Fresno, or Sacramento have much higher portions of their population busing as well, probably near the 50% mark for most of the US.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#267

Post by mygo » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:40 AM UTC

socalnate1 wrote: post #3

My high school started at 7am. I also took the bus; which picked up around 6:15am; so I usually woke up around 5:45am during the week. I would often nod off during my first or second period; and routinely took 2-3 hour naps when I got home from school; which screwed up my ability to fall asleep early at night or get much homework done. I sometimes wonder what my academics would have been like if I was actually awake…

I had a similar experience. I went to a magnet school, so it actually started one hour later than other schools (8am instead of 7am). However, since I rode the school bus, I still needed to be up early enough to catch the bus at 6am. The bus would first stop at the local school to drop kids off before driving to my school. I'd get home around 4pm, so all in all I was at school or going to and from school for 10 hours.

But the 10 hours wasn't my biggest complaint -- it was how little time we had to eat lunch. Lunch period was only 30 minutes, and the line to get food was 15-20 minutes long. So I only had like ~10 minutes to eat my lunch once I got it and use the remaining ~5 to be back in class in my seat or be tardy. We weren't allowed to eat in class or we'd get into trouble and get written up, so that ~10 minutes to eat once you actually account for all the logistics was it.

I don't think people realize how important it is for kids to get their nutrition when they're in school for so long trying to learn. Nutrition has a direct impact to learning. I think lunch period should have been longer. It felt like an afterthought in the schedule.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#268

Post by jelliclesfarm » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:44 AM UTC

quickthrower2 wrote: post #264

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not about fairness. Why is everything about ‘fairness’? It’s not a biological impediment. Getting up early is not a super power nor is childhood a disability. Getting up early and getting an early start gives you a buffer towards the end of the day. If you start late and run out of time, the whole rest of the day will be derailed. Anyways..just my 2c. I am not here to argue because I have no dog in this fight.

You assume similar sleep requirements in children and adults.

i think this new 'ban' is also based on a lot of assumptions.

california is continuing to experience what george carlin called a 'child fetish'.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#269

Post by cowsandmilk » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:50 AM UTC

AYBABTME wrote: post #258

crooked-v wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 3 months vacation per year This perception is usually pretty inaccurate. There's no time given during the school year for essentials like curriculum development, continuing education requirements, training new teachers, etc, so that eats up time during the summer 'break'. https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/07/myth-o... > Klem says she’s spending the rest of her summer this year attending meetings, d…

As an engineer, I have to pursue a lot of "keeping up with trends" on my own time. I spend my own time setting up my computers. I get a stipend for professional development, but I bare the bulk of the cost and time (most of the time). I often work a lot more than 40h. I think all that you mention is not uncommon for professionals who want to develop their skills in a continuous manner. I could say the same for lawyer…

Sure, but no one claims you have 3 months of vacation when you are spending time doing those things...

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#270

Post by boomboomsubban » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 6:54 AM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #214

boomboomsubban wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This one school performs well and it has a start time before 8" is anecdotal evidence. Only one school's performance or start time is considered.

Not single school, school network! I don't know how more clear I can be.

"This one school network..." doesn't stop it from being an anecdote.