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California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

qz.com

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Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#151

Post by cosmotron »

ThomPete wrote: post #147
freddie_mercury wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your single anecdote does not outweigh the many, many scientific studies that been conducted on this subject (or any other subject for that matter). I would have that would be obvious to a HN reader.

My single anecdote isnt single at all. We are talking about several schools using same method with kids in the top 3% on average. Show me the research and we can debate it, until then the primary problem in the us is that parent put their kids to bed too late.

Here is NPR's article on it: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/12/12/6761187...

Here is the journal article referenced: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/12/eaau6200

Here is the CDC's summary referencing further studies: https://www.cdc.gov/features/school-start-times/index.html

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#152

Post by Aperocky »

plughs wrote: post #120
Hermitian909 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you that, through most of the bay area at least, those policies are mostly about intentional socioeconomic segregation. My family has deep ties to local education infrastructure and its well known that most of the advocates for these policies are trying to keep poor kids out of their schools. While they don't say it in public forums they're generally more than happy to tell you in private.

Every year I see what a insurmountable advantage my kid has by having educated, comfortably well off parents. He's in 3rd grade and last week he had a homework assignment that had to be completed on a computer. What, your kid doesn't have their own computer at home? Tough luck! We're also already into 'projects' - more hours of work, more resources to buy. "oh you can do it with stuff around the house" (no you can't)…

Raspberry Pi are created for this exact purpose, and to think the school isn't giving everyone one to educate on basic computer science is beyond me. If you eventually learn trigonometry in math within the public education framework, I see no reason why people shouldn't be educated in more basic and practical things like computers.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#153

Post by pjkundert »

Ah, meddling central-planners preventing hard-working families from doing what it takes to achieve their dreams...

Don’t you just have to shake your head at people who’ve literally never had to accomplish anything life-and-death in their entitled little lives, making rules to protect us?

It brings a tear to the eye.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#154

Post by dragonwriter »

ThomPete wrote: post #129
jjeaff wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true according to multiple studies. On mobile, but you can Google them. Kids were found to do better when starting later, regardless of how early the kids go to bed. The effect is more pronounced in high school aged kids. Additionally, there is something to be said for accommodating kids who don't have a stable enough home life or parents that care or realize the damage caused by not enough sleep.

I dont know what you mean with better, my two sons are top performers in their school and the school network is top 3% performing in NY state. They are in school at 7:45 latest each morning. There are many benefits to getting an early start in the morning as ling as you have had a long nights sleep. So i would like to see the base if those studies as they dont reflect the reality and statistics i know of. Edit to tho…

> I dont know what you mean with better, my two sons are top performers in their school and

... presumably they, then, can explain to you the difference between anecdote and data.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#155

Post by shantly »

unqueued wrote: post #108
socalnate1 wrote: post #3

My high school started at 7am. I also took the bus; which picked up around 6:15am; so I usually woke up around 5:45am during the week. I would often nod off during my first or second period; and routinely took 2-3 hour naps when I got home from school; which screwed up my ability to fall asleep early at night or get much homework done. I sometimes wonder what my academics would have been like if I was actually awake…

I had similar experiences. I and many other students would sleep in our winter coats on the morning bus ride, and it was hard to focus until about 10AM. I strongly suspect that school hours are based around parents work hours, even if that is not what they say.

In high school, they're based around having time after school for sports practice and other extracurriculars, mostly, from what I understand (I know a lot of K-12 teachers). That's why so many districts still make elementary schools start like 2hrs after those kids are wide awake and already having some of their best hours of the day, while the high schools start before the damn sun's up for about half the school year—not enough buses to start everyone at once, so if you want the high school football players to have a nice long stretch to practice in the afternoon, you have to start high school very early and other schools very late.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#156

Post by pjkundert »

pjkundert wrote: post #153

Ah, meddling central-planners preventing hard-working families from doing what it takes to achieve their dreams... Don’t you just have to shake your head at people who’ve literally never had to accomplish anything life-and-death in their entitled little lives, making rules to protect us? It brings a tear to the eye.

My entire family would be on the bus a full hour before dawn at -20C, and wouldn’t return home until dark for 6 months of the year.

Learning to bear hardship isn’t a tragedy, in a loving home. One of these things is the important factor to focus on, and one isn’t.

As usual, bureaucrats focus on exactly the wrong one.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#158

Post by mLuby »

epmaybe wrote: post #105
mLuby wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes sleep(2100, 0500) == sleep(2300, 0700), which anecdataly is false.

Could you elaborate? I think you mean that there are benefits to waking up later due to the effect light has on circadian rhythm, but I don't want to assume.

That, and that some people are naturally early birds and others are night owls.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#159

Post by [deleted] »

Aperocky wrote: post #152
plughs wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every year I see what a insurmountable advantage my kid has by having educated, comfortably well off parents. He's in 3rd grade and last week he had a homework assignment that had to be completed on a computer. What, your kid doesn't have their own computer at home? Tough luck! We're also already into 'projects' - more hours of work, more resources to buy. "oh you can do it with stuff around the house" (no you can't)…

Raspberry Pi are created for this exact purpose, and to think the school isn't giving everyone one to educate on basic computer science is beyond me. If you eventually learn trigonometry in math within the public education framework, I see no reason why people shouldn't be educated in more basic and practical things like computers.

[deleted]

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#160

Post by wasdfff »

corey_moncure wrote: post #135
plughs wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every year I see what a insurmountable advantage my kid has by having educated, comfortably well off parents. He's in 3rd grade and last week he had a homework assignment that had to be completed on a computer. What, your kid doesn't have their own computer at home? Tough luck! We're also already into 'projects' - more hours of work, more resources to buy. "oh you can do it with stuff around the house" (no you can't)…

Are grade schoolers doing assignments that can't reasonably be completed on a raspberry pi grade computer or lower? It's difficult for me to imagine it, or the family that has two working parents yet legitimately can't fit $40 into the budget over the entirety of their child's career in school.

Outside of the tech bubble, no one knows what a raspberry pi even is, let alone knowing how to hook it up.
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