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Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

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Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#171

Post by omegaworks »

falcolas wrote: post #155
jknoepfler wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

edit: I'm being downvote bombed for this, which is strange. Anyone care to articulate reasons for disagreeing? Would it be correct to boycott CloudFlare for deplatforming the Daily Stormer? No, because there's nothing wrong with deplatforming Nazis, there was nothing morally reprehensible in Cloudflare's actions. Would it be correct to boycott Blizzard for severely over-reacting to a pro Hong Kong political act on on…

I downvoted, since the two incidents are fundamentally about free speech (I have a post attached to a sibling that explains why I think this applies to private companies too). That one form of speech is detested while the other is supported doesn't change that it's fundamentally about free speech. To be slightly hyperbolic, it's impossible to say something of substance that doesn't offend someone. If all we're allowe…

The intent of the founders was to ensure that citizens and journalists could speak out against their government without fear of retribution by the state. The "anything ought to be fine to say anywhere without consequence" interpretation is a modern phenomenon that extremists have used to platform and normalize violent suppressive rhetoric.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#172

Post by apostacy »

jknoepfler wrote: post #98
cloakandswagger wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you completely, but this whole debacle has highlighted what seems to be hypocrisy in the general public's reaction to this. Remember when The Daily Stormer got kicked off CloudFlare and a whole host of other platforms, to the point that no one would take their business and they were effectively censored? The average take on that seemed to be a mix of "Free speech doesn't apply to private companies" and "…

edit: I'm being downvote bombed for this, which is strange. Anyone care to articulate reasons for disagreeing? Would it be correct to boycott CloudFlare for deplatforming the Daily Stormer? No, because there's nothing wrong with deplatforming Nazis, there was nothing morally reprehensible in Cloudflare's actions. Would it be correct to boycott Blizzard for severely over-reacting to a pro Hong Kong political act on on…

> Would it be correct to boycott CloudFlare for deplatforming the Daily Stormer? No, because there's nothing wrong with deplatforming Nazis, there was nothing morally reprehensible in Cloudflare's actions.

Yes, it was wrong of CloudFlare to do that, and if I could choose a competitor I would.

And you would change your mind if someone accuses you of being a "nazi" and your account is immediately terminated. And yes it could happen to you. In this day and age anyone can be called a Nazi. Left leaning Jewish professors are getting called Nazis and assaulted and deplatformed. If it can happen to Jordan Peterson, it can happen to anyone.

So when it comes to the point, corporations have decided that they can arbitrarily deny service to whoever they please, for political reasons.

So I don't want to hear any of you complain about what Blizzard is doing. You should support Blizzard, because "freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences". Any Hearthstone player that insults China should have any company they do business with drop them. Because these are just the consequences of being hateful. From the point of view of a lot of Chinese people, supporting Hong Kong makes you an imperialist hateful biggoted sino-phobic "nazi" of sorts.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#173

Post by mrShekelstein »

Latty wrote: post #136
cloakandswagger wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you completely, but this whole debacle has highlighted what seems to be hypocrisy in the general public's reaction to this. Remember when The Daily Stormer got kicked off CloudFlare and a whole host of other platforms, to the point that no one would take their business and they were effectively censored? The average take on that seemed to be a mix of "Free speech doesn't apply to private companies" and "…

The difference between neo-nazis and democratic protest? The difference is content. I hate the tendency to fall back to arguments about free speech when that is not the point. Yes, of course everyone should be able to express views individually, but that doesn't mean I don't care about the content of what is being said. That doesn't mean everyone is entitled to the ability to ram that message down everyone's throat t…

>what is being said matters

how absolutely braindead

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#174

Post by larkeith »

vbezhenar wrote: post #131
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #4

This is a crisis point for everyone who supports political free speech. Every corporation and business person is watching this to see which hurts their bottom line less, suppressing free speech globally, or angering China. As consumers, we must make sure that they get the message loud and clear that suppressing free speech globally on behalf of China is going to hurt their bottom line far more than China will. Otherw…

Is it considered acceptable to push your political agenda on an unrelated events? For me it looks strange and out of place. Now punishing people for that might be too harsh. But if every sport event will turn into political debates (imagine US and RU sportsmen arguing with each other), it'll be bad and free speech has nothing to do with it IMO.

Indeed - platforms like post game interviews are not platforms for political views. However, it is naive to believe that Blizzard would have reacted anywhere near as strongly to any political statement not related to China.

The inappropriateness of Blitzschung's actions does not excuse Blizzard far less acceptable reaction.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#175

Post by AlohaFractal »

mactrey wrote: post #85
cloakandswagger wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you completely, but this whole debacle has highlighted what seems to be hypocrisy in the general public's reaction to this. Remember when The Daily Stormer got kicked off CloudFlare and a whole host of other platforms, to the point that no one would take their business and they were effectively censored? The average take on that seemed to be a mix of "Free speech doesn't apply to private companies" and "…

CloudFlare banned a site that was far, far outside the American political mainstream. Blizzard banned a player for saying something that is completely within the American political mainstream, to the point that supporting Hong Kong is a rare bipartisan stance. When you go against the mainstream American stance to curry favor with an authoritarian regime that is also a current political enemy, well, that's kind of kic…

An important tenet of the American ideal of freedom of speech involves specifically protecting unpopular speech, allowing people to express minority viewpoints without fear of suppression by the majority.

By this standard, Cloudflare's censorship of TDS is far less defensible that Blizzard's censorship of blitzchung. Saying that speech within the mainstream should be allowed and speech outside the mainstream should not be allowed is a violation of this tenet. If you support freedom of speech, you should support TDS's right to speak as strongly as blitzchung's.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#176

Post by detaro »

belltaco wrote: post #157
kmonsen wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese version of the Blizzard statement was different: https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/10/verified-chinese-bli... It included we will defend the honor of the nation, making it clear exactly what he did wrong.

Posted not by Blizzard but by Net-Ease, a Chinese company that isn't owned by Blizzard.

At the same time posted by a company officially representing Blizzard, unchallenged by Blizzard, and thus attributed to their brand.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#177

Post by falcolas »

bitL wrote: post #167
falcolas wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, there is no visible pressure that has been exhibited from China against Blizzard. There have been no statements from China either in support or condemnation of any of the involved actors. The situation is entirely driven by Blizzard, for fear of their potential revenue stream out of China. This is in contrast to the NBA scenario, where China did speak out against the NBA, and later began to cancel contracts.

It's possible Blizzard is only surviving if they have access to Chinese market? We don't know their financials, management might be just prudent from their point of view in order to survive (people are way more obsessed with gaming in Eastern Asia than anywhere else and those regions have largest population). The management is certainly fully aware of the whole sh*tshow and likely aren't happy with whatever choice th…

Their statements to shareholders put the Chinese market at 10% of their total revenue. ATVI is posting billions of dollars in profits, and has a profit margin of 25%+.

Activision Blizzard is in no risk of going bankrupt even if they lose the entire Chinese market.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#178

Post by ican1 »

mactrey wrote: post #85
cloakandswagger wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you completely, but this whole debacle has highlighted what seems to be hypocrisy in the general public's reaction to this. Remember when The Daily Stormer got kicked off CloudFlare and a whole host of other platforms, to the point that no one would take their business and they were effectively censored? The average take on that seemed to be a mix of "Free speech doesn't apply to private companies" and "…

CloudFlare banned a site that was far, far outside the American political mainstream. Blizzard banned a player for saying something that is completely within the American political mainstream, to the point that supporting Hong Kong is a rare bipartisan stance. When you go against the mainstream American stance to curry favor with an authoritarian regime that is also a current political enemy, well, that's kind of kic…

Free speech only for political mainstream is political mainstream speech, not free speech. E.g. completely open borders and unrestricted immigration is surely outside the American political mainstream, is it okay to ban any discussion of it?

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#179

Post by ben_jones »

taurath wrote: post #161
datapunk wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you respond when a character from your top grossing game is turned into a political meme? This is what Blizzard has been learning this week. How do you handle potentially thousands of attendees, at your organization's biggest annual event, turning it into a platform for political protest agaisnt your biggest growing market? There's three possible events: BlizzCon is canceled. Extremely unlikely but possible. B…

> This is a very awkward situation for blizzard, one they have ultimately created, no real way they will win. I don't think they created it per-say. I think they, and probably most of the executives in the industry, missed just how much a powder-keg chinese censorship is, and how political doing live international (or even national) sporting events can get. Everyone in the west is pissed at blizzard for cowing to Chi…

I wonder if the initial decision was made by Chinese Executives and Event staff without consulting corporate HQ, then corporate backed them since they have no obvious strategy for backpedaling.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#180

Post by belltaco »

PeterisP wrote: post #166
belltaco wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>is pressuring said private company (among _many_ others) to abridge free speech It was a post-game interview on a Blizzard event in a Blizzard broadcast. How is that different from "a private company not wanting to host " ? The player had supported HK freedom on his Twitter in the past, yet was allowed to play in the tournament. Gaming events have not been places for sharing political ideas, like social media is.

I think that there would be no meaningful uproar if Blizzard would simply not host or broadcast that interview because they don't like it for whatever reason, and left it at that.

How does that work in a live broadcast, or in live events with an audience?
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