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Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

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Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#91

Post by dinodub »

jlgaddis wrote: post #83
bigiain wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair

Can we please stop spouting this quote all over the place (especially when it isn't even applicable)? You can believe that the folks working at FinFisher understand very well exactly what they are doing. Their salary, however, has simply caused them to ignore it. Everyone has a price.

>be jlgaddis on HN

>have pet peeve

>tell kids to get off lawn and/or stop using cheeky quote

...

>be internet

>say "No U!"

>then say cheeky quote and step on lawn just because you can

Yeah, I think I'll not do what random stranger online tells me to do, simply because I have free will and live in free country

To suggest people online don't say something simply because you don't like it... is immature and silly.

Welcome to the World. People may do things you might not like, in which case you have to deal with it.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#92

Post by pmarreck »

sveme wrote: post #6

I'm always wondering how the software developers of FinFisher justify working for such shady players like Turkey and other middle east authoritarian regimes. Are they heading home to family and kids after destroying the remnants of the turkish democracy and tell themselves "twas a good day"?

Here's the conundrum that players like FinFischer probably encounter:

Not too many years ago, Turkey was a lot less demonized/shady. Imagine you establish a working relationship with them to help them combat "criminals", all is well for a time. Then, over the last few years, the outside perspective of Turkey is that it is an oppressive regime fighting people who are actually (considered by us) "freedom fighters". But the business relationships are still in place, and Turkey still believes it is fighting "criminals".

My point is that the definition of who is in fact "criminal" starts to get really blurry depending on who you are asking and what side they are on, and may vary over time.

China's angry because to them, the protesters in Hong Kong are "destabilizing terrorists" and aiding them is "a hostile act towards China". It's all relative, unfortunately.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#93

Post by rasz »

Faark wrote: post #85
notlukesky wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Germany an authoritarian regime when it tries to silence journalists and charge them with treason when they expose mass surveillance covering communications, Facebook and Twitter chats etc...?? https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/10/treason_case_agains...

Kind of funny how your link demonstrates a reasonably functioning justice system while you try using it to paint Germany as authoritarian regime . The case was dropped and the prosecutor forced to retired. Sure, would have been better to never have happened, but I don't see any system ever not having some shitty humans.

https://www.dw.com/en/german-spy-chief-passed-info-to-afd-re...

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#94

Post by Faark »

rasz wrote: post #93
Faark wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of funny how your link demonstrates a reasonably functioning justice system while you try using it to paint Germany as authoritarian regime . The case was dropped and the prosecutor forced to retired. Sure, would have been better to never have happened, but I don't see any system ever not having some shitty humans.

https://www.dw.com/en/german-spy-chief-passed-info-to-afd-re...

What point are you trying to make?

Its about someone else forced into retirement after doing something unacceptable.

I have a hard time considering it an authoritarian regime as long as those "bad apples" have to feel the consequences. Even if there are way more of them than I'd like.

In case people here didn't notice... germany, like other countries as well, has recently experienced a surge in alt-right populism. The AfD does get unpleasantly many votes, especially in some regions, but so far it seems to get handled reasonably well by the other parties. I personally are more worried about politics in the US reaching some breaking point.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#95

Post by coldtea »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #80
coldtea wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the sense of self-benefit, yes, it's rational. > The difference between $100k a year and $60k a year is enormous. Principles shouldn't depend on that though. Else "Yeah, I'd help kill kids and kittens for $1m" would also be an acceptable answer. $1m is also enormous compared to $100k. Decent people have made much bigger sacrifices that living with $60K a year for doing the right thing...

Principles don't depend on that, but house prices do and if you know the house market in Germany then you'd get it.

I doubt anybody who is not a programmer making over 60K is homeless in Germany...

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#96

Post by [deleted] »

jlgaddis wrote: post #83
bigiain wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair

Can we please stop spouting this quote all over the place (especially when it isn't even applicable)? You can believe that the folks working at FinFisher understand very well exactly what they are doing. Their salary, however, has simply caused them to ignore it. Everyone has a price.

[deleted]

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#97

Post by bigiain »

SI_Rob wrote: post #90
jlgaddis wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we please stop spouting this quote all over the place (especially when it isn't even applicable)? You can believe that the folks working at FinFisher understand very well exactly what they are doing. Their salary, however, has simply caused them to ignore it. Everyone has a price.

I totally agree that this quote is almost too economic for its own good and that as a consequence, overexposure has brought it to the threshold of fatal banality. However, OP didn't misapply it in this case. Rather, it looks like you may be making the very same point with plain language that the quote makes with sarcastic irony.

The eye-rolling banality is _exactly_ what I was aiming for.

"People prioritise greed over ethical behaviour, news at 11..."

The fact that people seem bemused by this in 2019, when it was banal and commonplace enough to be "sound bite worthy" back in the the 1940s, is where I was coming from. I have no doubt a scholar of classical language could trump me with an equally appropriate Latin or ancient Greek quote with a similar complaint.

People gonna peep. Given a choice between piles of money, and not fucking some other people over, those piles of money win _way_ way too often.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#98

Post by ccozan »

wolfgke wrote: post #29
adrianN wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it depends on the type of software development that you want to do? What area is your expertise in?

I think I know quite a lot about C and C++ (which means Modern C++ (currently C++17)), but have also worked in a lot of other programming languages (including Python, Java, JavaScript, Erlang (additionally, some further ones for university courses)). Additionally to computer science, I studied mathematics, where I also have a doctorate. I wrote my doctoral thesis about some very tricky questions about geometric struc…

If you are around Munich, still looking for a job, drop me a line at info at langsys.com

Deep thinking is what we look for.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#99

Post by zmix »

slater wrote: post #75
zmix wrote: post #48

Where did that turn "personal"? Who has been attacked or harmed? I did not find any reference to this in the article.

from TFA: "But this time, the company’s antagonists ramped up the pressure. Contained in the complaint were the names of FinFisher employees who the groups say are responsible."

Ah, okay, thanks.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#100

Post by wolfgke »

ccozan wrote: post #98
wolfgke wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I know quite a lot about C and C++ (which means Modern C++ (currently C++17)), but have also worked in a lot of other programming languages (including Python, Java, JavaScript, Erlang (additionally, some further ones for university courses)). Additionally to computer science, I studied mathematics, where I also have a doctorate. I wrote my doctoral thesis about some very tricky questions about geometric struc…

If you are around Munich, still looking for a job, drop me a line at info at langsys.com Deep thinking is what we look for.

While I am not currently looking for a job anymore (as I wrote: I found a job in a completely different sector), I nevertheless tried to find out what the company langsys is doing (since it is not unccommon for me to meet other people who have/had very similar problems). Unluckily, the website https://langsys.com/ contains no information.
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