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Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

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Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#71

Post by ar-jan »

d3v wrote: post #32
cyborgx7 wrote: post #30

Off-topic: This is an article I would consider spending 1-3 dollars to read. But the only option for me is to subscribe. Therefore I won't be reading it and they won't get my money. I know that on demand paying for articles hasn't been made to work yet. But it still feels like there is a potential here that isn't being serviced.

There is a Dutch company called Blendle[0] that has figured this out pretty well locally, and also has a BETA program running in the United States[1]. Articles are often much cheaper than 1-3 dollars, I don't recall paying more than 1 eur. They also combat clickbait titles and intros by providing a refund when the article turns out lousy. [0]: https://blendle.com/ [1]: https://launch.blendle.com/

Wait, I thought Blendle recently switched from pay-per-article to a subscription model (in which you only get to read selected articles)?

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#72

Post by kuerbel »

wolfgke wrote: post #58
acollins1331 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh hey, I figured out why you can't get a job as a software developer. You didn't mention in your first post you refuse to get good at interviews.

Solving hard algorithmic problems in a job interview is a very uncommon interview practice in Germany. In all other job interviews that I had, the programming questions were ridiculously easy. UPDATE: I actually got rejected in one job interview because I knew too much about some quite subtle details of the C++ language (claimed reason: I am not "sufficiently pragmatic" as a programmer). But I actually did solve some…

I'd say for most jobs you are overqualified and people are afraid you would be bored after some time. If I were you I'd apply at an institute like the DFKI, I'm sure they would be glad to have you and provide you with a good challenge.

The things recruiters told you ("not sufficiently pragmatic" or that you belong in academia)... they didn't tell you this to talk down to you but to give you hints.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#73

Post by dahart »

esotericn wrote: post #67
dahart wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a very high horse you’re riding. Everybody is looking the other way to some extent, there aren’t a lot of companies who live entirely on a moral high ground. Facebook, Microsoft, and Google have all done shady things here in the US and internationally, and they still have a lot of employees. Being in tech at all is being a willing participating in your economy in a way that is disenfranchising the poor, nearly…

The perfect is the enemy of the good. I draw my line somewhere, so does everyone. The choice is not between wanky surveillance defence jobs and going full hippie and living in the forest. To address the ad hominem: my personal attitude is to use the money I get from software dev for philanthropy. We earn a lot and have a duty to help the world. Noblesse oblige at a smaller scale. I don't work at FANG because I think…

I think that’s all very commendable of you. But what is the choice, then? And if there’s a line, then obviously there will be legitimate variation in that line from person to person. If there’s a line at all, it means the bar for passing judgement on others has to be very high and extremely clear cut. And it’s rarely so clear cut that passing judgement is a good idea. Most people are just trying to get by and feed their families. For example, all companies advertise, so not working for a FAANG company doesn’t really escape that one. Paying for advertising is just as bad as taking money for advertising. Paying is what actually perpetuates the system. Total aside, but only two of those companies are primarily driven by ad revenue, Apple, Netflix, and Amazon all make money from products.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#74

Post by RHSeeger »

esotericn wrote: post #65
RHSeeger wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're making this a little more black and white than it really is. How about a) Take the one job you've been offered right now, in your location, doing evil things b) fail to cover your mortgage payment this month and your house is foreclosed on. That choice is a lot more likely than just "you die". And the choice between bending your morals and losing your house is still a hard one. _(I don't know how mortg…

So don't take out a mortgage that you can't afford to pay off. It has the potential to make you a slave, as you illustrate in your example. These things don't just happen. If you stand up for what you believe in then perhaps you get fewer toys. It is how it is. I'd rather be poor and stand up for what I believe in than rich and a dickhead. YMMV. The fact that someone has sunk costs does not give them a pass.

> So don't take out a mortgage that you can't afford to pay off.

Are you implying that you shouldn't take out a mortgage that you can't pay off without a job? That makes no sense at all. I'll admit you shouldn't take out a mortgage that you will default on if you're out of work for 1 month, but plenty of people wind up out of work for longer periods of time.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#75

Post by slater »

zmix wrote: post #48

Where did that turn "personal"? Who has been attacked or harmed? I did not find any reference to this in the article.

from TFA:

"But this time, the company’s antagonists ramped up the pressure. Contained in the complaint were the names of FinFisher employees who the groups say are responsible."

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#76

Post by esotericn »

RHSeeger wrote: post #74
esotericn wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So don't take out a mortgage that you can't afford to pay off. It has the potential to make you a slave, as you illustrate in your example. These things don't just happen. If you stand up for what you believe in then perhaps you get fewer toys. It is how it is. I'd rather be poor and stand up for what I believe in than rich and a dickhead. YMMV. The fact that someone has sunk costs does not give them a pass.

> So don't take out a mortgage that you can't afford to pay off. Are you implying that you shouldn't take out a mortgage that you can't pay off without a job? That makes no sense at all. I'll admit you shouldn't take out a mortgage that you will default on if you're out of work for 1 month, but plenty of people wind up out of work for longer periods of time.

I'm saying that you should aim to not get caught up in a lifestyle in which you significantly increase the chance that you will feel forced to do bad things in the future to maintain it.

I won't give hard figures because really this mortgage example is just one of many. It's a basic principles thing.

Poor people living hand to mouth have no choice. A qualified software developer really does.

If you mortgage yourself to the hilt and have two kids you can barely afford, then you might well say "oh, my responsibility is towards my family now". Some people respect that.

I think it's bullshit. Anyone can increase their lifestyle to meet their income, pile up debts and then claim they just have to do whatever bossman says because otherwise it'll all unravel.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#77

Post by esotericn »

dahart wrote: post #73
esotericn wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The perfect is the enemy of the good. I draw my line somewhere, so does everyone. The choice is not between wanky surveillance defence jobs and going full hippie and living in the forest. To address the ad hominem: my personal attitude is to use the money I get from software dev for philanthropy. We earn a lot and have a duty to help the world. Noblesse oblige at a smaller scale. I don't work at FANG because I think…

I think that’s all very commendable of you. But what is the choice, then? And if there’s a line, then obviously there will be legitimate variation in that line from person to person. If there’s a line at all, it means the bar for passing judgement on others has to be very high and extremely clear cut. And it’s rarely so clear cut that passing judgement is a good idea. Most people are just trying to get by and feed th…

Let's say that the lower bound is "working for a spyware company".

I get what you're saying but I think you're just playing devil's advocate.

Yeah, I actually do personally struggle with this. The vast majority of companies do, indeed, sell and produce shit we don't need, often to the detriment of society at large (they may temporarily benefit individuals).

I am concerned with the climate too. I consume products that have embodied CO2 emissions. Because it's literally impossible to not do so in the modern world. That doesn't mean just throwing my hands up and saying "lol fuck it, there is no moral high ground" and buying a Hummer, y'know?

I am free to pass judgement on people who do bad things, and I will continue to do so. I expect people to do the same of me. This is the process by which we evolve as a race. It's big girl time now, there are 7 billion of us and we've collectively attained demi-god status in terms of our ability to affect the fabric of the world around us.

We _need_ to learn a way to put the collective before the individual or we are going to comprehensively fuck ourselves.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#78

Post by ameister14 »

sveme wrote: post #51
notlukesky wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Germany an authoritarian regime when it tries to silence journalists and charge them with treason when they expose mass surveillance covering communications, Facebook and Twitter chats etc...?? https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/10/treason_case_agains...

I don't understand your point. What's your argument?

I think the point is that it isn't just Middle Eastern regimes - perhaps they should feel uncomfortable working with the German government, as well

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#79

Post by wolfgke »

kuerbel wrote: post #72
wolfgke wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solving hard algorithmic problems in a job interview is a very uncommon interview practice in Germany. In all other job interviews that I had, the programming questions were ridiculously easy. UPDATE: I actually got rejected in one job interview because I knew too much about some quite subtle details of the C++ language (claimed reason: I am not "sufficiently pragmatic" as a programmer). But I actually did solve some…

I'd say for most jobs you are overqualified and people are afraid you would be bored after some time. If I were you I'd apply at an institute like the DFKI, I'm sure they would be glad to have you and provide you with a good challenge. The things recruiters told you ("not sufficiently pragmatic" or that you belong in academia)... they didn't tell you this to talk down to you but to give you hints.

> The things recruiters told you ("not sufficiently pragmatic" or that you belong in academia)... they didn't tell you this to talk down to you but to give you hints.

I would have loved to stay in academia. The problem, why I left academia is the infamous Wissenschaftszeitvertragsgesetz, which gives you an employment ban on temporary contracts in academia after 6+6 years. Since nearly every employment contract in science is temporary, this actually implies a nearly complete employment ban in science after at most 12 years.

Re: Clash over Surveillance Software Turns Personal in Germany

#80

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

coldtea wrote: post #69
Mirioron wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that fairly rational? The difference between $100k a year and $60k a year is enormous.

In the sense of self-benefit, yes, it's rational. > The difference between $100k a year and $60k a year is enormous. Principles shouldn't depend on that though. Else "Yeah, I'd help kill kids and kittens for $1m" would also be an acceptable answer. $1m is also enormous compared to $100k. Decent people have made much bigger sacrifices that living with $60K a year for doing the right thing...

Principles don't depend on that, but house prices do and if you know the house market in Germany then you'd get it.
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