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Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

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Re: Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

#301

Post by throwaway981211 »

trustfundbaby wrote: post #298
throwaway981211 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m an engineer now at Amazon. I’ve been here 7 years. 5 years ago, our culture was far more toxic. More recently, some orgs are horrible places to work and others are much better. I don’t think we’re much worse than other companies. Our pay for engineers is less than Google and Facebook, as far as I know, but we beat other companies such as MSFT. Amazon naturally attracts people who want to accomplish big things. It…

> Amazon naturally attracts people who want to accomplish big things. It just happens that many of these folks are assholes. You could probably just replace "Amazon" with "Silicon Valley"

I mean - I haven’t worked at any other large tech company so I don’t have any data point to make that claim.

Re: Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

#302

Post by jpalomaki »

Oracle would have the set of tools for providing a interesting opinionated cloud/onprem platform for microservices architecture.

Something along the lines of JavaEE, deployed on something derived from WebLogic, bound together with reliable messaging bus (Tuxedo), backed by Oracle database.

Re: Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

#303

Post by irrational »

thomasjudge wrote: post #262
irrational wrote: post #89

We've been working on migrating from Oracle to Postgres for a few years now. We are about 2 weeks from being finished. It is not for the faint of heart, but it is totally worth it. The documentation is much much better, performance is equivalent or better, the sql dialect is saner, etc. Other than moving the data itself (ora2pg was invaluable for this), rewriting the queries is what has taken the most amount of time.…

What about pl/sql to pl/pgsql?

This wasn't too bad. The first one was the worst - figuring out the difference in the syntax. But after that it was fairly simple to convert all the rest to Postgres syntax. It took a few days to convert all of them in our system (about 500).

Re: Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

#304

Post by arthurcolle »

chrisseaton wrote: post #152
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oracle's new licensing requirement for Java is a bit threat to that platform. My company for technical reasons can't switch to OpenJVM so we're going to pay Oracle their new licensing money but we're not doing any greenfield Java development and are going to work towards moving our Java applications to another platform. That's an n=1 example but wouldn't be surprised if others end up migrating away, causing longterm…

> My company for technical reasons can't switch to OpenJVM The OpenJDK (not 'OpenJVM', that's not a thing) is literally 100% the same build as Oracle JDK now. There can't be any technical reason.

couldn't his software be written on a relatively older version of the JDK that would preclude this?

Re: Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

#305

Post by BoyRobot777 »

brianmc21 wrote: post #184
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oracle's new licensing requirement for Java is a bit threat to that platform. My company for technical reasons can't switch to OpenJVM so we're going to pay Oracle their new licensing money but we're not doing any greenfield Java development and are going to work towards moving our Java applications to another platform. That's an n=1 example but wouldn't be surprised if others end up migrating away, causing longterm…

We were told not to download any new versions of java due to oracle trying to extract money for it. Basically we are going to do the same. Purge every oracle product slowly but surely

> We were told

Yeah. Say no more... If only you would have looked. Anyhow, Oracle does the following:

- Contributes pretty much all of the closed source technologies (or what was originally to become closed source) of the Oracle JDK to OpenJDK, for example giving the community: JDK Flight Recorder; JDK Mission Control; ZGC; …and probably more stuff I can’t think of right now;

- Ensures the Oracle JDK and the OpenJDK builds are virtually indistinguishable;

- Starts providing a free OpenJDK build (which includes all these donated technologies);

- Provides uncountable man hours of maintaining and innovating the Java platform;

- Ensures that the community knows where to find the free bits by linking to them, and slaps on a bright yellow warning sign, so that everyone can see that the licensing has changed;

And how does the community react, you wonder? Yep, that’s right. “Oracle is the Devil”, “This is a bait and switch operation” etc. Ad nauseum.

ONCE AGAIN. You do not need to use OracleJDK. Just use OpenJDK from AdoptOpenJDK.

Re: Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

#306

Post by marcosdumay »

JacKTrocinskI wrote: post #226
irrational wrote: post #89

We've been working on migrating from Oracle to Postgres for a few years now. We are about 2 weeks from being finished. It is not for the faint of heart, but it is totally worth it. The documentation is much much better, performance is equivalent or better, the sql dialect is saner, etc. Other than moving the data itself (ora2pg was invaluable for this), rewriting the queries is what has taken the most amount of time.…

I have a hard time believing PostgreSQL performance is better than Oracle, can you give an example? How big is your database and how much did migrating cost you?

Nobody has any data they can show you, because Oracle's EULA prohibits both running their software and sharing that data, you can only do one of those.

My experience is that Postgres has better performance than Oracle on much smaller machines. If you have very simple data, with very simple joins, and never deviate from the trivial "select columns from table join table using (foreign key)" you may have a different experience, because Oracle is just great on those.

Re: Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

#307

Post by e12e »

LrnByTeach wrote: post #189

Here is the meat of the Report: >We migrated 75 petabytes of internal data stored in nearly 7,500 Oracle databases to multiple AWS database services including Amazon DynamoDB,Aurora, RDS, and Redshift. >We kept careful track of the costs and the performance, and realized the following results: >Cost Reduction – We reduced our database costs by over 60% on top of the heavily discounted rate we negotiated based on our…

> Cost Reduction – We reduced our database costs by over 60% on top of the heavily discounted rate we negotiated based on our scale. Customers regularly report cost savings of 90% by switching from Oracle to AWS.

So Amazon saves 60%, when switching to paying "cost" for Amazon services - and they still claim customers paying cost+markup save 90%?

I'm sure there's probably savings - but that math sounds optimistic.

Or more likely they're apple to oranges - porting a service that could run on a single postgres node from oracle to anything will save you maybe 10k USD a year in licensing for which you see a pretty slim return.

Re: Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

#309

Post by BoyRobot777 »

binarymax wrote: post #84
y4mi wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? Its an Open source implementation of the java vm which they don't own.

There are a couple ways they are trying to do this. They’re actively fighting the court battle vs Google for copyright of the Java api. They’re also adding more features to Java that are only supported in new versions, and they can/will attempt licensing lock in for those features. OpenJDK might survive as permanently stuck in version 8, or it might survive as a fork which will divide the community.

Except the opposite is happening lol:

- Contributes pretty much all of the closed source technologies (or what was originally to become closed source) of the Oracle JDK to OpenJDK, for example giving the community: JDK Flight Recorder; JDK Mission Control; ZGC; …and probably more stuff I can’t think of right now;

- Ensures the Oracle JDK and the OpenJDK builds are virtually indistinguishable;

- Starts providing a free OpenJDK build (which includes all these donated technologies);

- Provides uncountable man hours of maintaining and innovating the Java platform;

- Ensures that the community knows where to find the free bits by linking to them, and slaps on a bright yellow warning sign, so that everyone can see that the licensing has changed;

Some bits do not even make sense: >OpenJDK might survive as permanently stuck in version 8

??? Wat?

Re: Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

#310

Post by BoyRobot777 »

jobu wrote: post #255
LrnByTeach wrote: post #189

Here is the meat of the Report: >We migrated 75 petabytes of internal data stored in nearly 7,500 Oracle databases to multiple AWS database services including Amazon DynamoDB,Aurora, RDS, and Redshift. >We kept careful track of the costs and the performance, and realized the following results: >Cost Reduction – We reduced our database costs by over 60% on top of the heavily discounted rate we negotiated based on our…

> Customers regularly report cost savings of 90% by switching from Oracle to AWS. How the hell is Oracle still able to charge so much? Earlier this year we were looking to spin up a temporary development instance of Oracle DB for a proof-of-concept project, but the license alone was over $50k. People were already pissed about them adding licensing costs to Java, so this kicked off an effort to start migrating to a mo…

What licensing costs? OpenJDK is free. As it always have been. OracleJDK and OpenJDK starting from version 11 are virtually the same.
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