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5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

5g.systemsapproach.org

91–100 of 113 posts

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've never been in an expo hall with 10k people all trying to post an instagram photo, have you?

So the solution is the radiate the entire group of people for instagram?

As already said, this will use beam forming, which means that the radio energy is focused at the receiver.

This means less interference to others around, and higher capacity.

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#92

I heard the real reason we need 5G is to sell more new phones. Thinner and bigger and better cameras isn’t enough anymore. However, mobile phones running 5G radios will deplete their battery far more rapidly than LTE, right? And that is assuming the 5G phone user is in a major metropolitan area where there is sufficient coverage to begin with.

My theory is that it will be heavily sold to business to connect surveillance and other data hungry devices. It could be perfect for large landowners like a business park or industrial site.

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#93
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! You can put a mmwave basestation in a factory (a couple of cells near the ceiling) and controll everything (machines, "robots", transporters, forklifts, inventory,...) via LTE.

But why not just use wifi then ?

Wifi has low capacity (in terms of number of connected devices) and offers no guarantee on anything (latency, reliability). It is not suited for critical and industrial applications.

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#94
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardware, well obviously. Wavelength not so much. From 700MHz to 5 GHz everything is in use. Now 3.4GHz (main 5G frequency) is right inbetween. Nearly noone is trying to build 5G networks with the high frequencies starting from 24GHz because you have a) no range and b) line of sight is preferred.

I think the main concern comes from the mM-wave frequencies from what I've read. The others are more of the same, but a lot of what I've seen--and I can't remember where at the moment--focused exclusively on the high frequency nodes that would (theoretically) be deployed in urban areas.

People don't realize they're exposed to mmwave already. If you're on a jet or ship, in sight of a jet or ship, near an airport (not just going through a body scanner), near a weather radar station, within line of sight of a microwave relay tower, walking through automatic doors, or driving, your body is absorbing mmwave RF from something. All of those sources are from radar, which is a lot more common than one might think.

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#95
post #5

I heard the real reason we need 5G is to sell more new phones. Thinner and bigger and better cameras isn’t enough anymore. However, mobile phones running 5G radios will deplete their battery far more rapidly than LTE, right? And that is assuming the 5G phone user is in a major metropolitan area where there is sufficient coverage to begin with.

> I heard the real reason we need 5G is to sell more new phones. Yes, and to force change of technical platform. It is harder to persuade carriers to do 4G properly, than to give them a brand new deal. For example we would likely never see VoLTE interoperability. Another factor is that Chinese companies really want it, because they have most of IP on it, and they don't want to "walk on the minefield" laid by patent t…

> For example we would likely never see VoLTE interoperability.

In the US at least we will have to get there eventually. The major US carriers are all killing 2G and 3G in the early 2020s[1] and due to FCC 911 requirements (you basically have to be able to call 911 if you can connect a phone to a network), not to mention basic voice roaming support, that means all VoLTE phones will have to (eventually) support VoLTE on any network.

[1] https://www.multitech.com/documents/publications/marketing-g...

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#96
post #8
post #4

Don't you think, that 5g is stupid idea, if masts have to by every, 200 - 300? meters, it will be terribly ugly, and how it's suppose to work in farms?

5G doesn't need masts every 200-300m. There are multiple different frequency bands you can use. The lowest frequencies are around the same as 4G, so you should need similar numbers of masts to get reasonable coverage. The highest are around 60GHz - these are pretty much line-of-sight and are likely to be used for shorter-range (but super-high-bandwidth) applications.

What he means is that 5G offers only a ~15-20% increase in thoroughput with it's new set of modulation schemes given the same frequency span using 4G. So the increase in performance has to come from new frequency use. They'll steal half of C-band from satellite uplink but then all that's left is millimeter wave to truly get more thoroughput.

And that does have the problem about the propagation characteristics.

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#97
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microwave ovens are not very narrowband and certainly do not excite 'rotational resonances of water'. The periodic burn marks on your cheese are from coarse standing waves within the microwave oven cavity (related to the magnetron resonance and spacing of the walls).. it has nothing to do with molecular resonances. EDIT: the reason it cooks food is the intensity of the field strength (1 kilowatt per cubic ft, or ~27,…

Please explain the mechanism for the 2.45Mhz microwave oven cooking food and how that rules out the possibility of the 5g band having unintended interactions with molecules found in living organisms. You can settle this debate for the EU and save them a few million bucks worth of studies.

power in a microwave oven: 1000 watt

power from your phone: 0.2 watt in case of LTE.

reveived power from a basestation: around -40 to -120 dbm.

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#98

Is there any hope of 5G providing internet service comparable to my current broadband offering? Competition for my home internet would be nice.

Speed and latency wise it should be manageable, but the bigger problem is spectrum licenses. Depending on your local legislation, it might be that new competitors cannot do last-mile 5G delivery because the existing telecoms have purposefully lobbied and bought out all available spectrum.

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#99
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so far we've learned: 1) 5G improves wireless internet - though it only works over short-range and can't go through walls. 2) 5G needs a massive deployment of new devices to reach consumers - though most consumers are not willing to pay even $1 more for 5G. 3) 5G is a prerequisite for amazing new tech like IoT and self-driving cars - many of which already exist and will continue to use existing 3G and 4G bands…

You're obsessed with "5G can't go through walls". This is a meme and does a dis-service to your knowledge. 5G reuses existing 3G and 4G frequencies, but with better rf management (among other things). The mmwave frequencies are to address mass-crowd scenarios, which currently today already cause 4G DAS deployments to almost burst at the seams. These are not "my" opinions. These are the current state of affairs re RF…

Well, it might be unsophisticated of me to belabor my point, but it doesn't take a genius to see that there are major technical drawbacks with 5G, and the industry has not been successful in convincing consumers to buy into the hype.

Telcos are blowing $26 billion on this new tech, so I think it's important to question how they're going to make that money back. If you read how the industry itself answers this question, hint: it's not self-driving cars. It is 5G network slicing. The current wireless infrastructure is built on net neutrality, so they cannot differentiate traffic without rebuilding it all from scratch. That is the real reason behind the $26 billion rollout and millions of new devices. They need to rebuild the internet to charge enterprise customers high prices and 5G is just how they decided to market this project to the public. They need to do this before the political environment changes or else they lose their opportunity.

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#100
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Molecules don't resonate at 5G frequencies.. even with 5G mmWave, the wavelengths are about 10,000x too long (millimeters). It's like riding on a cruise ship in the ocean and worrying that the wine glass in your hand is going to resonate and shatter from the ocean waves. The impact on tissue is still thermal.. and the power flux densities of 5G are small compared to the sun, especially so because RF bandwidths are ti…

All polar molecules will react to all EM fields. (did you know you can bend a water stream with a magnet?). The wavelength of microwave ovens is even longer, at 6.66cm. And yet that's the rotational resonant frequency of water. Weird, huh? By the way, you can confirm this with a single slice of cheese with the turnplate removed and then calculate the speed of light from the burn marks on that cheese being 3.33cm apar…

>The wavelength of microwave ovens is even longer, at 6.66cm. And yet that's the rotational resonant frequency of water. Weird, huh? By the way, you can confirm this with a single slice of cheese with the turnplate removed and then calculate the speed of light from the burn marks on that cheese being 3.33cm apart :)

Not really. 2.4GHz was chosen because it allowed to built microwave ovens at that particular size and because nobody cares about the 2.4GHz range. You can build 900 MHz ovens too, there are some, mainly for industrial usage.

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