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Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

swissdevjobs.ch

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Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#261

Post by kragen »

lukeqsee wrote: post #3

I'm an American expat in Switzerland working as an independent software developer and startup founder. I can agree with a lot of the points listed in the article, but they apply universally to almost all jobs (not just to software developers). I would raise a few points it doesn't mention: - Negatively, it is much harder to find meetups close to you that apply to you. Unless you're based in Zürich (the tech hub of th…

What are the ways to get a visa? You've said you married a Swiss woman, and that work visas are only available to non-EU people when companies couldn't find a Swiss (or EU) person to do the job. I suppose there's also some kind of "millionaire visa". Is that it? How hard are each of these categories of visa to get?

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#262

Post by balabaster »

cactus2093 wrote: post #229
greatgib wrote: post #53

Bullshit alert They start with: "Maybe it is because of the outrageous rents eating over 30% of the salary and houses you cannot afford unless you joined Facebook or Google at the right time? " Regarding the SV. Then, this is what they (proudly) say about Switzerland: 1) "In Zurich, you can rent a whole flat (50+ square meters) for something between 2500-4000 CHF " 2) "In Switzerland a Software Developer can easily e…

Yeah this article is interesting. Cost of housing is basically being described as as high as the Bay Area, but the salaries sound quite a bit lower. Junior devs in SF are making maybe $110-130k, vs 60-90 that the article claims in switzerland. Senior devs are making maybe $180-220k, plus more in stock options/RSUs (which despite the negative reaction to them here on HN, actually do often turn into real money at least…

I can't speak for GitLab specifically, nor for the whole of Europe. I'm from the UK and living in Toronto (which seems vaguely comparable to SV in terms of income/cost of living). I generally keep a pretty close eye on the UK market and I can tell you that salaries for a senior developer job in the UK will compare, when accounting for the cost of living, to about a 75% pay cut against what I earn now. That's not to say there aren't outliers in the UK where you could earn a comparable standard of living. I'm taking the median/high income range for a senior developer in both places.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#263

Post by 0xffff2 »

izacus wrote: post #81
jankotek wrote: post #21

Rent in Zurich is $4000 a month and that as an advantage? Is that a joke? Many workers in Switzerland commute daily from foreign countries to save money.

$4000 for rent is not normal for Zurich, and a 25 minute comfortable train commute drops the rent significantly lower. Try getting a 25 minute commute in SV.

I have a 10 minute commute in the south bay and I "only" pay $2100/month. Rents in the bay area are excessive, but even so $4000 is excessive by bay area standards anywhere outside of SF proper.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#265

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

saiya-jin wrote: post #140
asdfman123 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, a lot of the "pros" of living in Switzerland are basically the same as in the US. In any other low-key metropolis (Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Austin, Phoenix, Des Moines, whatever) a software developer with 5 years of experience can earn $130k and buy houses for $250k - $350k. If you're single, you can get luxury 1 BD apartments for $1500 in happening parts of town. Plus, in the enterprise world it's very easy t…

You obviously never lived in Switzerland. Can't explain all the US-CH differences in few words, but some benefits: better healthcare, better social system, much much safer, actually working public school system, great clean nature on your doorstep, I can be in 2 minutes of drive in beautiful France and 1 hour drive in Italy and rest of Europe is just around the corner. Very health and sport-oriented mentality. Super…

I don’t agree or disagree with any specific points.

I just think it’s funny you are 1:1 comparing a country twice the size of, with the same population of New Jersey, with its single city over 250k... to the entirety of the United States.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#266

Post by [deleted] »

iamasoftwaredev wrote: post #242
amyjess wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I'd rather avoid both SV and CH and just live in Texas. $1/sq. ft. ($10.76/m²) is still the norm in Dallas, and it's not too hard to find cheaper. You would pay less money for a decent-size house in the suburbs of Dallas than the cheapest 1-bedroom apartment in SV or Zurich.

I don't think I could stand Texas. I don't like heat and I hate having to deal with commuting. Also I abhor the politics of the state and region, in general.

[deleted]

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#267

Post by ticmasta »

reascenda wrote: post #198
victor106 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Positively, I work from home. I have four providers I could get 1Gbps symmetrical, unmetered, business-class FTTH for less than 100,- CHF / month. It's hard to go wrong with that. I pay 79.99 USD a month for Verizon Fios 1 gbps in nyc. That is before a $200.00 credit. Fios is FTTH. That’s a good 20-25% discount to what you pay in Switzerland. Plus I heard from several colleagues and friends who are people of color…

The CEO of Credit Suisse is a black man from the Ivory Coast. Not to say that racism doesn't exist in Switzerland but equally you don't see policemen shooting unarmed black people in their houses either.

That's likely attributed more to gun culture than a lack of racism

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#268

Post by ElDji »

IdontRememberIt wrote: post #194

Switzerland is a complex system: instead of 1 high rate tax, you pay many low taxes. So cheating is not worth it individually (too risky/complex for a small saving). But the sum is crazy. Exemple of taxes/mandatory ccharges a developper will pay: network tax, photocopy tax, radio tax, VAT, AHV/IV, garbage elimination tax, city tax, state tax, federal tax, healthcare (in some countries it is included in your "federal/…

> Usually, I work 6 month per year for taxes.

Having worked as freelance in switzerland, that sound weird and make me thing : "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#269

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

cactus2093 wrote: post #229
greatgib wrote: post #53

Bullshit alert They start with: "Maybe it is because of the outrageous rents eating over 30% of the salary and houses you cannot afford unless you joined Facebook or Google at the right time? " Regarding the SV. Then, this is what they (proudly) say about Switzerland: 1) "In Zurich, you can rent a whole flat (50+ square meters) for something between 2500-4000 CHF " 2) "In Switzerland a Software Developer can easily e…

Yeah this article is interesting. Cost of housing is basically being described as as high as the Bay Area, but the salaries sound quite a bit lower. Junior devs in SF are making maybe $110-130k, vs 60-90 that the article claims in switzerland. Senior devs are making maybe $180-220k, plus more in stock options/RSUs (which despite the negative reaction to them here on HN, actually do often turn into real money at least…

>can't figure it out, why are software engineer salaries in Europe are so much lower than the US?

Because in the EU there are no visa restrictions for importing foreign workers like in the US.

EU companies can secure working visas to almost anyone outside the EU in a couple of months so instead of raising salaries to attract local talent they know it's a much better deal to pay a recruiter and wait to find an outsider desperate for a job or a sucker who doesn't know the market/living costs.

Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if the US would have unrestricted immigration and give working visas to anyone who fit the job description?

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#270

Post by laurencerowe »

mercutio2 wrote: post #220
aripickar wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that’s true. Sorry, not to versed in healthcare costs, it’s the first time I had to pick my own plan and/or pay for it.

You’re also, I’m guessing, young with no dependents. The employee portion of health care costs goes up dramatically as you age (even if you don’t pay for other people); you can’t project from your health care costs in your 20s out to middle age.

At every place I’ve worked in the US my employee share of health insurance does not vary by age, only by plan you select and if you cover dependents.
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