Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

swissdevjobs.ch

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 345 posts

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#161

Post by error265 »

Moving their in 20 days. (software engineer from London).

In my opinion there is less opportunities there (In Switzerland) higher starting salary, then people get stuck in the middle 120-140, and can't shift past. (for the reasons mentioned below). Because managers don't want to pay developers more than themselves.

HOWEVER, that same problem exists in London, but is typically solved by developers going day-rate contract. That way management can justify and still get experience.

Because the market is smaller in Switzerland it does not make it so easy for a day-rate contractor market to exist..

So, my point is, if Switzerland is better than London for developers on a global level. Its only marginal. But compared to other salaries, Doctors, Dentists Lawyers, Engineers etc. Developers in London are well paid (treated as technical roles similar to those mentioned) Whereas in Switzerland developers are paid half++ of those jobs.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#162

Post by register »

Varqu wrote: post #37
vasili111 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. How easy/difficult to get Switzerland citizenship if you live and work there? 2. How popular is English language is in Switzerland IT companies?

This guide answers a lot of questions: https://swissdevjobs.ch/blog/how-to-find-job-as-software-dev... Long story short: it's super easy if you are from the EU. If not, it is quite hard.

Not easy at all if you don't have any connection. Applying by simply sending a CV won't work at all. It's a different story once you're in then finding a job is pretty easy. I have several friends that have tried and the ones who made it moved first to the Switzerland subsidiary of the company they were already working for. Other had relatives in Switzerland and didn't had any reply to their applications when staying in their birth country. After moving to their relatives in Switzerland they found a job within one month.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#163

Post by logicchains »

freehunter wrote: post #84
dominotw wrote: post #40

How is it better if the salaries are lower. I am tired of engineers should care about their "craft" above all else dictums. Software engineering is somehow more pure and innocent than evil finance ( for example). I would rather earn a lot in my prime and retire early to a place of my choosing.

There's a lot of people who care about more than just raw salary. I could get a higher salary in the Bay Area but my quality of life would drop substantially. It's not worth it. And although my paycheck would go up, my discretionary income would drop substantially as well. It doesn't matter if I get paid 2x if my cost of living is 3x and my commute time is 5x.

>It doesn't matter if I get paid 2x if my cost of living is 3x and my commute time is 5x.

It depends where you're coming from. If your current cost of living is $2000/month, your salary is $100,000/year and your commute is 10 minutes, your above ratios would lead to $200,000/year salary, $6000/month cost of living and 50 minutes commute in the Bay Area, increasing disposable income from $76k to $128k. Many people would happily trade the extra commute for the 60%+ increase in money to spend or save.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#164

Post by adventured »

opmac wrote: post #121
aripickar wrote: post #86

Like half of these are negatives, imo. 1) I've found places in the bay for way less than what they were saying, even without roommates. Its like 2k for a 1br in Lake Merritt, which is 15-20 minute BART to SF. 2) Yes startups that are pre-seed/ pre-series A will have crazy hours, but any big tech co. will be pretty close to 40 hours a week. My team is pretty big about work life balance, and we work at a place infamous…

> 6) 300 CHF is still 6x what I pay for healthcare per month. I currently pay 46 USD per month for (from what I can tell is excellent) healthcare, vision, and dental. You are the exception here, not the rule. 46 USD for Healthcare is pretty rare in the US. It's not uncommon for people to spend 500 USD per month, so 300 CHF would look good to many people. There is also the potential argument that the Swiss healthcare…

> 46 USD for Healthcare is pretty rare in the US.

For a software developer (the subject of the post) it is not pretty rare. The median software developer is well over six figures in the US now for salary. Having your healthcare entirely or nearly entirely covered by your employer, is not unusual when you're over $100k.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#165

Post by noelsusman »

victor106 wrote: post #89
lukeqsee wrote: post #3

I'm an American expat in Switzerland working as an independent software developer and startup founder. I can agree with a lot of the points listed in the article, but they apply universally to almost all jobs (not just to software developers). I would raise a few points it doesn't mention: - Negatively, it is much harder to find meetups close to you that apply to you. Unless you're based in Zürich (the tech hub of th…

> Positively, I work from home. I have four providers I could get 1Gbps symmetrical, unmetered, business-class FTTH for less than 100,- CHF / month. It's hard to go wrong with that. I pay 79.99 USD a month for Verizon Fios 1 gbps in nyc. That is before a $200.00 credit. Fios is FTTH. That’s a good 20-25% discount to what you pay in Switzerland. Plus I heard from several colleagues and friends who are people of color…

I know a Swiss expat living in America who moved here for that exact reason. His wife is Cuban, and they said they felt more at home and accepted in the US after a few months than they did after 10 years of living in Switzerland. They both loved Switzerland, but they cited the insular culture as the primary reason for leaving. His wife just couldn't handle it anymore.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#166

Post by pergadad »

lukeqsee wrote: post #150
thbr99 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why an expat. Is it something with the work permit. How does one transition from expat to immigrant ?

Technically, yes. I use the term "expat" to denote that I'm not a Swiss citizen yet; the definition is pretty broad and can include immigrants: https://www.wordnik.com/words/expat .

All expats by definition are immigrants, not all immigrants are expats. Normally refers to high qualified high earning individuals while in most places most immigrants are low skilled low wage and only a small group would be reasonably called expats.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#167

Post by SavageBeast »

gypsypunk wrote: post #148
asdfman123 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, a lot of the "pros" of living in Switzerland are basically the same as in the US. In any other low-key metropolis (Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Austin, Phoenix, Des Moines, whatever) a software developer with 5 years of experience can earn $130k and buy houses for $250k - $350k. If you're single, you can get luxury 1 BD apartments for $1500 in happening parts of town. Plus, in the enterprise world it's very easy t…

Sorry, but Austin is not low COL. you’re way off the mark with those numbers for anything near Austin central and it’s going up exceedingly fast.

I was in total agreement with this and for fun I did a Zillow search and there are in fact a good many condos that are asking <=$350K. Some of them are even large enough to turn around in too. I have to say I'm a little surprised. None of them are awesome but I've seen many a worse place in The Lower Haight.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#168

Post by hc91 »

I call bullshit on this article. Ah and by the way - the bulk of the article contents start after the following sentence: "There are 8 reasons why I personally find Switzerland much better for the fellow Software Engineer: [...]" This is a PERSONAL OPINION of some random guy.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#169

Post by aripickar »

tumetab1 wrote: post #128
aripickar wrote: post #86

Like half of these are negatives, imo. 1) I've found places in the bay for way less than what they were saying, even without roommates. Its like 2k for a 1br in Lake Merritt, which is 15-20 minute BART to SF. 2) Yes startups that are pre-seed/ pre-series A will have crazy hours, but any big tech co. will be pretty close to 40 hours a week. My team is pretty big about work life balance, and we work at a place infamous…

Isn't the 46$ just that part you pay? In other words, isn't your employer paying the rest? This is just for clarification that we're comparing apples to apples.

I guess that’s true. Sorry, not to versed in healthcare costs, it’s the first time I had to pick my own plan and/or pay for it.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#170

Post by balfirevic »

rmah wrote: post #156
balfirevic wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Zurich, you can rent a whole flat (50+ square meters) for something between 2500-4000 CHF > In Switzerland a Software Developer can easily earn over 100,000 CHF (1 CHF is around 1 USD) So... A little bit cheaper apartment combined with a salary that is half or third (from what I read, I don't live there) of what you can get in Bay Area. WTF is this article trying to say? Edit: And of course, not to even mention…

50 sq m is 500 sq ft, which is considered very small in most of the US and on the small end even in NYC. It's just slightly larger than a mobile home.

That's interesting. It is considered a very decent size for a single person or even a couple where I live (Croatia).

But then again, I grew up in a family of five in a 45 square meter apartment.

Post reply on HN