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Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

swissdevjobs.ch

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Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#121

Post by opmac »

aripickar wrote: post #86

Like half of these are negatives, imo. 1) I've found places in the bay for way less than what they were saying, even without roommates. Its like 2k for a 1br in Lake Merritt, which is 15-20 minute BART to SF. 2) Yes startups that are pre-seed/ pre-series A will have crazy hours, but any big tech co. will be pretty close to 40 hours a week. My team is pretty big about work life balance, and we work at a place infamous…

> 6) 300 CHF is still 6x what I pay for healthcare per month. I currently pay 46 USD per month for (from what I can tell is excellent) healthcare, vision, and dental.

You are the exception here, not the rule. 46 USD for Healthcare is pretty rare in the US. It's not uncommon for people to spend 500 USD per month, so 300 CHF would look good to many people.

There is also the potential argument that the Swiss healthcare system is better overall than the US system, but that could be a complete debate in itself.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#122

Post by Double_a_92 »

xz0r wrote: post #105
greatgib wrote: post #53

Bullshit alert They start with: "Maybe it is because of the outrageous rents eating over 30% of the salary and houses you cannot afford unless you joined Facebook or Google at the right time? " Regarding the SV. Then, this is what they (proudly) say about Switzerland: 1) "In Zurich, you can rent a whole flat (50+ square meters) for something between 2500-4000 CHF " 2) "In Switzerland a Software Developer can easily e…

> that means that we can calculate your rent there to be between 30% to 48%. But I guess, just because it is in Switzerland, it should not be outrageous? The article assumes that you would share the flat with others. Sharing with 2 others would mean effective rent is 800-1300 CHF.

Also you don't necessarily have to live in Zürich city... Outside the city or in other parts of Switzerland you can find a decent flat for ~1500 CHF.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#123

Post by saiya-jin »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #16

> If you want to save on the premium and keep yourself healthy then you pick the 2500 franchise and pay as little as 300 CHF per month for healthcare insurance. That's..surprisingly expensive for someone that's not self-employed. I didn't think it would be that expensive. Meanwhile for me it's about $30 a month for my HSA employer plan with a lower deductible.

Its actually closer to 400 per month, significant and mandatory payment. And so far it keeps rising every year (was 230CHF in 2010 for me). But its completely untied from employer, you find your own model and finance it yourself.

Plus with this you have 2500 'franchise', meaning only after you pay 2500 CHF in given year, insurance kicks in. Lesser threshold costs obviously even more. For teeth care there is basically no usable public insurance, people just go across the border (or swallow the cost in case of emergency)

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#124

Post by sixhobbits »

lukeqsee wrote: post #3

I'm an American expat in Switzerland working as an independent software developer and startup founder. I can agree with a lot of the points listed in the article, but they apply universally to almost all jobs (not just to software developers). I would raise a few points it doesn't mention: - Negatively, it is much harder to find meetups close to you that apply to you. Unless you're based in Zürich (the tech hub of th…

I'm in Zurich, moved recently from South Africa - also in the startup space, currently working remotely, also from home.

Would love to grab a coffee sometime if you're keen - your website in your profile doesn't resolve - does the email work?

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#125

Post by tiagopc »

dijit wrote: post #5
zerr wrote: post #2

Cons: no Sun and the salaries seem to be capped at CHF 120-140K. Has that old school European mindset that managers and MBAs should be paid more than individual contributors, engineers.

Lots of Sun, but maybe not as much as Southern California. San Francisco is famously non-sunny (all that cloud). Salaries are certainly not capped at 140k CHF, I've seen a number of job ads for 180K CHF and that doesn't count stock options which is usually the bulk of compensation at the high end. Not sure about the MBA vs IC thing though.

> Salaries are certainly not capped at 140k CHF, I've seen a number of job ads for 180K CHF Are you speaking about CH or USA? Because in CH it pretty much seems to be capped at 140k CHF and below. Unless you are speaking of a very specific role/technology stack.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#126

Post by balfirevic »

greatgib wrote: post #53

Bullshit alert They start with: "Maybe it is because of the outrageous rents eating over 30% of the salary and houses you cannot afford unless you joined Facebook or Google at the right time? " Regarding the SV. Then, this is what they (proudly) say about Switzerland: 1) "In Zurich, you can rent a whole flat (50+ square meters) for something between 2500-4000 CHF " 2) "In Switzerland a Software Developer can easily e…

> In Zurich, you can rent a whole flat (50+ square meters) for something between 2500-4000 CHF > In Switzerland a Software Developer can easily earn over 100,000 CHF (1 CHF is around 1 USD)

So... A little bit cheaper apartment combined with a salary that is half or third (from what I read, I don't live there) of what you can get in Bay Area. WTF is this article trying to say?

Edit: And of course, not to even mention that living in $8000 apartment on $200 000 salary is much better than living in $4000 apartment on $100 000 salary.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#127

Post by nscalf »

lukeqsee wrote: post #3

I'm an American expat in Switzerland working as an independent software developer and startup founder. I can agree with a lot of the points listed in the article, but they apply universally to almost all jobs (not just to software developers). I would raise a few points it doesn't mention: - Negatively, it is much harder to find meetups close to you that apply to you. Unless you're based in Zürich (the tech hub of th…

How was the process of moving from the US to Switzerland? I'm a senior engineer, and I'm open to moving there to work, but I don't have the slightest idea of how I would go about finding places to interview or find a job. How did you find yours? Are there recruiters to bring in out-of-country talent? I feel like that would be a massive hurdle, considering you would need a visa. Any advice on finding a job?

Edit: I'm an idiot, that's a job site. Some of the question still stands, how was the process of finding a job out of the country and getting a visa?

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#128

Post by tumetab1 »

aripickar wrote: post #86

Like half of these are negatives, imo. 1) I've found places in the bay for way less than what they were saying, even without roommates. Its like 2k for a 1br in Lake Merritt, which is 15-20 minute BART to SF. 2) Yes startups that are pre-seed/ pre-series A will have crazy hours, but any big tech co. will be pretty close to 40 hours a week. My team is pretty big about work life balance, and we work at a place infamous…

Isn't the 46$ just that part you pay? In other words, isn't your employer paying the rest?

This is just for clarification that we're comparing apples to apples.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#129

Post by lukeqsee »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #116
mywittyname wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was the process of obtaining a work visa / citizenship?

Make sure you are knowledgeable about raclette. https://www.thelocal.ch/20180604/brit-denied-swiss-citizensh...

I've heard similar stories, but all of the regulation surrounding citizenship is not so homogeneous between towns, cantons, etc.

So some cantons might only require a basic understanding while others grill you like this. It'll be a few years before I discover how it is in St. Gallen. :)

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#130

Post by aantix »

If you're single or a couple dating, love tech, move to SV. Don't deprive yourself of that experience.

Hire a professional relocator to find your apartment. That's what we did. Company paid for it.

Every third person you will meet is an engineer, generally working on something cool. Everyone has ideas as to how you can do things "better" - from tech to processes to politics.

You can attend all sorts of product launch parties, meetups, company socializers. So many that it's impossible to go to them all.

You can meet many of the founders and engineers that you read from on HN. Either they live in SF/Bay Area or end up visiting. Just tweet at them and ask.

I've never regretted those years.

The financial line gets much blurrier when we started having a family, along with the SF school system isn't that great.

But for tech culture, it was one of a kind. So. Much. Tech. And I loved every moment of it.

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