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Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

zdnet.com

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Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#121

Post by phreack »

ddiq wrote: post #116
nnq wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Racial profiling is just a slur for pattern recognition ...?! Did you really write that?! Do you really believe that? WTF, man! Do you realize how that would sound in any other context? A few steps down this line and you'd use machine learning concepts to justify natzy ideas or stuff like that.

Machine learning will find these patterns all on their own. They're not worried about being ostracized for seeing the world for how it is.

Machine learning is based on sample data, which time and time again has been proven to be biased, producing errors due to racism which then get fed back into the system and perpetuate the cycle. It is not infallible and it does not reveal truths that people are 'worried' about seeing, it's a reflection of current mindsets.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#122

Post by onion2k »

ddiq wrote: post #117
traderjane wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If black Americans are more likely to commit local crimes and you are developing software for police to predict hotspots of crime, wouldn't race be another aspect of pattern recognition in this narrative? And would it be wrong for banks or loan programs to optimize on such pattern recognition if it were found that ethnicity could improve their forecasting? Or for software companies to forecast employee effectiveness…

Do you want your system to be "nice" or do you want it do be effective?

I want it to be effective, which is why racial profiling is a bad idea. Crime rates correlate to poverty rather than race. If you design your system to target race you'll get lots of false positives in middle class black neighbourhoods and you'll ignore crime in poor white neighbourhoods. Racial profiling doesn't work.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#123

Post by onion2k »

wolco wrote: post #25
ucha wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China managed to quite quickly absorb the technology transfer from Alstom/Siemens to build high-speed trains. Now their trains are better than anyone else's and they have more high-speed rails than any other country. They even managed to beat competitors and export their trains to Turkey and Argentina... I have no doubt their airplane will ultimately be successful.

But will China be able to make the next leap on their own? It's one thing to copy but another to come up with the design on the first place.

There's a lot to be said for letting someone else spend billions perfecting a design and then just copying it. If you can do it quickly and make improvements you'll maintain second place very cheaply, which let's you spend the rest of your resources on more useful things.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#124

Post by williamchangnpu »

wolco wrote: post #25
ucha wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China managed to quite quickly absorb the technology transfer from Alstom/Siemens to build high-speed trains. Now their trains are better than anyone else's and they have more high-speed rails than any other country. They even managed to beat competitors and export their trains to Turkey and Argentina... I have no doubt their airplane will ultimately be successful.

But will China be able to make the next leap on their own? It's one thing to copy but another to come up with the design on the first place.

It's intriguing to see that during the last 3 decades, China has made so much progress, and from a historical perspective, I think China will make its own plane, just like how they made their own cars and trains, I do think they have the ability to reverse engineer the plane related stuff,sooner or later, but innorvaton is another thing, it totally make sense to me that China wants to copycat all the high tech stuff, and also, the counter massure that US took is totally reasonable. From the human species' point of view, it is fascinating.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#125

Post by ddiq »

onion2k wrote: post #122
ddiq wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want your system to be "nice" or do you want it do be effective?

I want it to be effective, which is why racial profiling is a bad idea. Crime rates correlate to poverty rather than race. If you design your system to target race you'll get lots of false positives in middle class black neighbourhoods and you'll ignore crime in poor white neighbourhoods. Racial profiling doesn't work.

This is just not true. The percentage of blacks in a population is a higher correlate for crime than income, poverty, or any other economic factors. This has been replicated many times.

edit: Here are some studies. I would have put them in a reply but I'm being rate limited. Any one is sufficient on its own, but all are interesting.

http://www.unz.com/article/race-and-crime-in-america/

http://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-c...

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10940-011-9134-...

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289611...

http://www.jstor.org/stable/591624?seq=1#page_scan_tab_conte...

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289609...

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12552-016-9164-y

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#126

Post by hyperbovine »

onion2k wrote: post #122
ddiq wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want your system to be "nice" or do you want it do be effective?

I want it to be effective, which is why racial profiling is a bad idea. Crime rates correlate to poverty rather than race. If you design your system to target race you'll get lots of false positives in middle class black neighbourhoods and you'll ignore crime in poor white neighbourhoods. Racial profiling doesn't work.

So class profiling then ? This does not sound any better.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#127

Post by linkregister »

ddiq wrote: post #125
onion2k wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want it to be effective, which is why racial profiling is a bad idea. Crime rates correlate to poverty rather than race. If you design your system to target race you'll get lots of false positives in middle class black neighbourhoods and you'll ignore crime in poor white neighbourhoods. Racial profiling doesn't work.

This is just not true. The percentage of blacks in a population is a higher correlate for crime than income, poverty, or any other economic factors. This has been replicated many times. edit: Here are some studies. I would have put them in a reply but I'm being rate limited. Any one is sufficient on its own, but all are interesting. http://www.unz.com/article/race-and-crime-in-america/ http://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22…

Can you share one of those studies?

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#128

Post by notwumao »

erentz wrote: post #60

Unfortunately all Chinese citizens must comply under Chinese law with spying requests whenever their intelligence agencies come asking. That makes every Chinese citizen in your company a potential spy. This is shitty on so many levels, and what is the appropriate response? Should Chinese citizens have lower access in US companies? At universities? Etc. That would be a terrible outcome. We do need some kind of clear a…

Chinese citizen here but not a legal expert. I am not aware of any Chinese law requiring compliance with intelligence agencies' request. Can you please give a source?

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#129

Post by blub »

ddiq wrote: post #110
djsumdog wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During WW2, there was an internment camp called Manzanar, where the US put all the Japanese, even those with full American citizenship, simply because they were Japanese.

It's a perfectly reasonable stance in a war. Better to have 10,000 people interned than to risk a few more Takeo Yoshikawas running around.

Yoshikawa was an embassy employee and had a military background...

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#130

Post by pinkfoot »

wolco wrote: post #25
ucha wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China managed to quite quickly absorb the technology transfer from Alstom/Siemens to build high-speed trains. Now their trains are better than anyone else's and they have more high-speed rails than any other country. They even managed to beat competitors and export their trains to Turkey and Argentina... I have no doubt their airplane will ultimately be successful.

But will China be able to make the next leap on their own? It's one thing to copy but another to come up with the design on the first place.

5G patents by country…

https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/htt...

Answer: yes.

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