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Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

zdnet.com

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Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#111

Post by traderjane »

ddiq wrote: post #101
thinkcontext wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a crackdown underway. "Is it police work or racial profiling? U.S. crackdown puts Chinese scholars on edge" https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-07-21/trump-ch...

Racial profiling is just a slur for pattern recognition. If it turns out that 95% of Chinese scholars in the US are more loyal to China than to America, and that when given a chance, will illegally send information back to China, what are you supposed to do? It's fine if you don't want to have a racial bias yourself, but it doesn't mean you need to ignore the fact that (in this hypothetical) the vast majority of Chin…

If black Americans are more likely to commit local crimes and you are developing software for police to predict hotspots of crime, wouldn't race be another aspect of pattern recognition in this narrative?

And would it be wrong for banks or loan programs to optimize on such pattern recognition if it were found that ethnicity could improve their forecasting? Or for software companies to forecast employee effectiveness on similar pattern recognition?

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#112

Post by fsloth »

cat199 wrote: post #57
azernik wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And going even farther back, the British industrial revolution was built on producing cheap copies of Indian textiles.

... using machines that british people invented. get the overall point, but not sure this is a good example.

US copied british factories by industrial espionage to bootstrap their own industry and eventually became the bigger industrial producer...

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#113

Post by fsloth »

starpilot wrote: post #97

With everyone hacking each other, maybe countries should just openly share IP and avoid the expense/troubles of cyber espionage. The end result is the same.

40% of US company export revenues come from IP. Not gonna happen.

https://www.uschamber.com/series/above-the-fold/the-state-am...

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#114

Post by nnq »

ddiq wrote: post #101
thinkcontext wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a crackdown underway. "Is it police work or racial profiling? U.S. crackdown puts Chinese scholars on edge" https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-07-21/trump-ch...

Racial profiling is just a slur for pattern recognition. If it turns out that 95% of Chinese scholars in the US are more loyal to China than to America, and that when given a chance, will illegally send information back to China, what are you supposed to do? It's fine if you don't want to have a racial bias yourself, but it doesn't mean you need to ignore the fact that (in this hypothetical) the vast majority of Chin…

> Racial profiling is just a slur for pattern recognition

...?! Did you really write that?! Do you really believe that? WTF, man! Do you realize how that would sound in any other context? A few steps down this line and you'd use machine learning concepts to justify natzy ideas or stuff like that.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#115

Post by fsloth »

ggm wrote: post #27

Personally, I think we'd have all been better served by the IPR being available on some RAND basis. There is a reason Buran looked like the Shuttle, which goes beyond spying.

Often problem constraints shape form, but Buran is maybe not such a great example of this. Buran looked like shuttle because the program was told to copy the US program to my knowledge.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#116

Post by ddiq »

nnq wrote: post #114
ddiq wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racial profiling is just a slur for pattern recognition. If it turns out that 95% of Chinese scholars in the US are more loyal to China than to America, and that when given a chance, will illegally send information back to China, what are you supposed to do? It's fine if you don't want to have a racial bias yourself, but it doesn't mean you need to ignore the fact that (in this hypothetical) the vast majority of Chin…

> Racial profiling is just a slur for pattern recognition ...?! Did you really write that?! Do you really believe that? WTF, man! Do you realize how that would sound in any other context? A few steps down this line and you'd use machine learning concepts to justify natzy ideas or stuff like that.

Machine learning will find these patterns all on their own. They're not worried about being ostracized for seeing the world for how it is.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#117

Post by ddiq »

traderjane wrote: post #111
ddiq wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racial profiling is just a slur for pattern recognition. If it turns out that 95% of Chinese scholars in the US are more loyal to China than to America, and that when given a chance, will illegally send information back to China, what are you supposed to do? It's fine if you don't want to have a racial bias yourself, but it doesn't mean you need to ignore the fact that (in this hypothetical) the vast majority of Chin…

If black Americans are more likely to commit local crimes and you are developing software for police to predict hotspots of crime, wouldn't race be another aspect of pattern recognition in this narrative? And would it be wrong for banks or loan programs to optimize on such pattern recognition if it were found that ethnicity could improve their forecasting? Or for software companies to forecast employee effectiveness…

Do you want your system to be "nice" or do you want it do be effective?

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#118

Post by swagasaurus-rex »

goatinaboat wrote: post #104
aclsid wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of similar to North America in a way. And just like the Chinese, you guys don't realize it because as the saying goes, everybody thinks their crap doesn't stink. Sure in the case of China it is a more crude form of propaganda, but if you don't believe me, just try to find information about what happened in Ecuador just now in your newsmedia. That information was supressed by media conglomerates because of a pro-…

Kind of similar to North America in a way. Not really the same. Americans are taught to love an abstract, idealised version of America, an eagle perched atop a flag, and it doesn’t really work, half of Americans hate even that, and that’s fine, no one really cares. Whereas the Chinese are taught to love a specific leader of a specific party operating a specific system, etc. And the consequences for not complying are…

As shitty as America is, we are allowed to criticize our government.

And boy do we have a lot of harsh things to say about all of them.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#119

Post by onion2k »

ddiq wrote: post #101
thinkcontext wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a crackdown underway. "Is it police work or racial profiling? U.S. crackdown puts Chinese scholars on edge" https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-07-21/trump-ch...

Racial profiling is just a slur for pattern recognition. If it turns out that 95% of Chinese scholars in the US are more loyal to China than to America, and that when given a chance, will illegally send information back to China, what are you supposed to do? It's fine if you don't want to have a racial bias yourself, but it doesn't mean you need to ignore the fact that (in this hypothetical) the vast majority of Chin…

If recruiting Chinese nationals stops working the Chinese state will just start recruiting other nationalities. Plenty of people would pop a USB drive in their work PC for $100k. The only reason they don't now[1] is that it's more expensive, there's a bigger risk of the person turning themselves in, and if caught it's more politically difficult.

[1] Assuming they don't already, which is a huge assumption.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#120

Post by bigwavedave »

boredishBoi wrote: post #78
fyfy18 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than being compelled, what happens if the citizen is voluntarily spying for their government? And maybe it's not even their government, maybe their brother in law is an exec for a competitor back home, so they want to help him out. And rather than being Chinese, maybe the citizen is French. https://www.france24.com/en/20110104-france-industrial-espio...

What if their brother in law is an exec at an American competitor? I don’t see how your example is relevant given we’re discussing governments spying/compelling citizens to spy for them.

Exactly. That's wildly different from being tempted to help out an in-law and conflating the two is disingenuous at best.
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