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Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

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Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#421

Post by dkonofalski »

llimllib wrote: post #313
JustFinishedBSG wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All your points seems like they are trivially solved by using another DE and distribution

your definition of "trivial" is different from mine haha (fwiw: my propensity for installing new DEs and distros in the hope of solving all my problems was what made me leave linux in the first place)

While I'm glad that I'm not the only one who is in the same situation and frame-of-mind as you, I wish more people admitted this. The endless chain of Linux re-distroing to fix issues is absolutely the main issue with Linux.

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#422

Post by Annatar »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #256
Annatar wrote: post #187

"Linux 2000: There is only One True Way of installing software: using distro packages. If you do anything else you are bad and you should feel bad." That is absolutely correct and if one is installing software in any other way than packaging it into an OS package, one is hacking in the worst possible, amateurish way, with the added bonus that every experienced UNIX system administrator will hate one's guts come time…

People like you are the reason Linux is not and will likely never be a good Desktop OS. It should not require an army of maintainers, repos, and all that bullshit just to get software from developer to user. Thankfully there is AppImage. Now if only more developers would distribute that way.

Actually there are no words which can describe my hate of GNU and Linux, so you Sir are confused. On top of that, the easiest and fastest way for end users to install software is through OS packages, rather than making poor users install one piece of software through pip, the other through npm and yet another through some other arbitrary, language or ecosystem proprietary "packaging" format. Poor users; my heart goes out to them, for their suffering is also mine.

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#423

Post by dkonofalski »

ufmace wrote: post #411
airstrike wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Windows it feels the same way, except a lot of what Windows Update does runs silently in the background, sometimes during your most precious computing hours with no way to stop it except force quitting through the Task Manager. And half the time the updates fail. And when you quickly want to shut down sometimes Windows also forces an update...

Apple seems to love doing this too. It's just great when it decides to update iMovie and iTunes, huge apps which I have never used, when your battery is at 30% and you're on a terrible WiFi connection. It's hard to tell that the update is in progress at all, and seemingly impossible to stop. Took me a while to figure out how to remove the apps I never intend to use and disable auto-updates for the ones I do use. It c…

>Took me a while to figure out how to remove the apps I never intend to use

It took you a while to figure out how to drag an app to the trash in the same way that deleting any other file works? =/

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#424

Post by Kaos-Industries »

fortran77 wrote: post #401
nkoren wrote: post #190

Meh. I bailed out of the Mac ecosystem last year, as my mid-2012 retina Macbook was finally getting too creaky, and the latest Mac hardware was a regression in many respects, while simultaneously utterly unaffordable. I'm now dual-booting Ubuntu/Windows 10 on a Dell XPS 15". What this experience has taught me is that computing in 2019 basically sucks. The problems with 2000-era Linux, as described in the article, are…

Windows 10 on the "happy path" (the right hardware) works very well. My desktop machine is a box by ThinkMate (dual Xeon, 256 GB Ram, Dual 2080 video cards, dual 5K monitors). It "just works" -- including all the power management functions sleep, hibernate, monitor sleep, wake on ethernet, fan control, etc. Super quiet unless all the GPUs are running full blast. My laptop is a Surface Book. Again, it "just works". Pl…

Props for escaping the Apple cult for Windows, but I'm sorry, how much RAM? Why does anyone need that much RAM? And more importantly, how much did it cost?

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#425

Post by peterangular »

There were so many bits of this that I found weird but this one stood out:

> Linux 2000: There is only One True Way of installing software: using distro packages. If you do anything else you are bad and you should feel bad.

I was in my "dating phase" of testing Linux distros out as a kid in those days, and I never felt "bad" building something from source when not available from aptitude (or portage, or whatever)...?

I feel like being able to build one-off software has always been part of the ethos of Linux due to the whole "freedom" aspect and all =/

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#426

Post by dkonofalski »

rayiner wrote: post #325
nkoren wrote: post #190

Meh. I bailed out of the Mac ecosystem last year, as my mid-2012 retina Macbook was finally getting too creaky, and the latest Mac hardware was a regression in many respects, while simultaneously utterly unaffordable. I'm now dual-booting Ubuntu/Windows 10 on a Dell XPS 15". What this experience has taught me is that computing in 2019 basically sucks. The problems with 2000-era Linux, as described in the article, are…

Yes. My 2012 retina MacBook was getting long in the tooth last year, so I got an X1 Carbon with all the bells and whistles. Remarkably, the on board LTE just plain never worked. (It would randomly die after a few uses requiring a hard reboot.) The screen bezel delaminated and has to be replaced. Developed three dead pixels after a few months of use. Recently started rebooting randomly with a full battery. My dad had…

>So many apps are not DPI aware.

I tried to use Windows on my laptop to run some ETL software, not because I was trying to get off of macOS but because that particular tool only exists on Windows for right now, and running it on a 4K display or a HiDPI display makes it completely unusable. The fonts for the icons and everything else are so unbelievably tiny and using the scaling features just makes everything bigger. If Windows had a good way of dealing with apps that aren't HiDPI aware, it wouldn't be an issue but even the tools that they do have aren't consistent in how they fix the issue. Scaling the UI by 200% isn't a good fix.

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#427

Post by IsNullAValue »

"Apple 2019: fanboys will let you know in no uncertain terms that their system is the best and will take over all desktop computer usage. Said fanboys are condescending elitist hipster latte web site designers." - sounds much like the Sonos discussion forum.

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#428

Post by floren »

dkonofalski wrote: post #421
llimllib wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

your definition of "trivial" is different from mine haha (fwiw: my propensity for installing new DEs and distros in the hope of solving all my problems was what made me leave linux in the first place)

While I'm glad that I'm not the only one who is in the same situation and frame-of-mind as you, I wish more people admitted this. The endless chain of Linux re-distroing to fix issues is absolutely the main issue with Linux.

I blame Ubuntu's mid-2000s decision to offer "Ubuntu", "Lubuntu", "Kubuntu", and "Xubuntu", which seemed to convince people that the only way to change desktop environments is to reinstall Linux.

They're all there, just a few clicks away in whatever crap-ass GUI Ubuntu has stuck on top of apt these days. At the end of the day, all these distros are just Debian, Redhat, or (rarely) Arch under the hood, so if you get sick of lack of support for JimBobLinux, you can just install Debian and quit fucking around. I did that 15 years ago (good god) and haven't regretted it.

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#429

Post by dkonofalski »

newscracker wrote: post #345
jonwinstanley wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up using Windows and after 20 years switched to Mac and could not believe I had waited for so long. What parts of Windows do you prefer over MacOS?

I prefer macOS over Windows, having used both for a long time. But one area where Windows has beaten macOS is keyboard shortcut support. I can use a Windows system and applications without a mouse and get many things done (including using a program like Paint.Net for image editing/manipulation). But macOS is inferior on this front, and it's quite difficult to use it if a trackpad or mouse isn't available. I know that…

I don't follow. MacOS has very extensive keyboard shortcuts and they dynamically show in the menu bar of every application. Is there a specific thing that's missing? It actually drives me nuts on Windows that apps don't consistently have to show you the keyboard shortcuts. Moving to Office on the PC from the Mac was infuriating because some of the shortcuts are different but there's not even any way to see what they are easily. If there is, it must be right in front of my eyes because I just don't believe that it could be that hidden.

Re: Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000

#430

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

Annatar wrote: post #422
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People like you are the reason Linux is not and will likely never be a good Desktop OS. It should not require an army of maintainers, repos, and all that bullshit just to get software from developer to user. Thankfully there is AppImage. Now if only more developers would distribute that way.

Actually there are no words which can describe my hate of GNU and Linux, so you Sir are confused. On top of that, the easiest and fastest way for end users to install software is through OS packages, rather than making poor users install one piece of software through pip, the other through npm and yet another through some other arbitrary, language or ecosystem proprietary "packaging" format. Poor users; my heart goes…

> Actually there are no words which can describe my hate of GNU and Linux

Fair enough, I read your comment as supportive of this way of doing things, and therefore Linux in general.

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