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“Dune” Endures (2013)

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Re: “Dune” Endures (2013)

#111

Post by RangerScience »

voxl wrote: post #110
RangerScience wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. You, uh, missed, well... a lot. Just on one note, the entire aspect that the prophecies Paul steps into were literally fabricated as sort of sleeper memes for later use? Like, of course that's cringe worthy, of course it reeks of foreign savior complexes, _it was built to be that_. The next three books get increasingly philosophical and many people don't like them, but I very much do.

This may come as a surprise to the fanatics of Dune, but there are actually some of us who finished it and just rolled our eyes at the end. It was subpar for me in just about every way, and cringey would be an apt description of the entire experience.

Well, yes. I would go so far to say that _usually_, when one doesn't like something that many other people do, it's because they're missing what drew those other people in.

Re: “Dune” Endures (2013)

#112

Post by stevekemp »

ozim wrote: post #102
stevekemp wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the curious the song is "To Tame a Land (1983)", and was going to be called Dune, but permission was not granted. When I think of unexpected Maiden I recall The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner, but this was a good crossover too.

I am not amused by that song, feels like cheap capitalization on "Dune" popularity at the time. Lyrics are nothing special, sounds are quite ok but I take "Wasted years" over this any time. Sounds like Sabbaton, who is capitalizing on "battle songs" for different countries. It is not like I don't like Iron Maiden but yeah, there is some metal band somewhere doing "Harry Potter" metal song. Though maybe I am too cynic…

I've bought every Maiden album released, up until the mid nineties, and I'd rate that particular track as "forgetable" rather than "bad".

It's definitely a track I'd skip more often than not if I'm listening to my Maiden playlist. The addition of a voiceover, which I think I recall they planned, in the intro might have made an interesting difference. Much like the other crossover piece I now remember, The Prisoner.

Re: “Dune” Endures (2013)

#113

Post by ethbro »

pgt wrote: post #109
ethbro wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Folks forget about Dune 1 too. In 1992, it was one of the first "modern" 4X games (SimCity 1989, Civilization 1991). Even given shorter game development timelines, it deserves more credit than it gets.

Dune 1 is one my favourite games. I still pull it up once every few years and play it out. Beautifully made. The Space Opera soundtrack by Exxos is also epic!

I didn't know the whole internal war about its development. If you check the sibling comment, it's a really interesting story!

Re: “Dune” Endures (2013)

#114

Post by mancerayder »

pgt wrote: post #109
ethbro wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Folks forget about Dune 1 too. In 1992, it was one of the first "modern" 4X games (SimCity 1989, Civilization 1991). Even given shorter game development timelines, it deserves more credit than it gets.

Dune 1 is one my favourite games. I still pull it up once every few years and play it out. Beautifully made. The Space Opera soundtrack by Exxos is also epic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WZQbJlLkDg

Re: “Dune” Endures (2013)

#115

Post by stevekemp »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #108
stevekemp wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems almost zero chance that the notes will be released. Brian has been increasingly adament about it, largely because a lot of people are vocal about suspecting they don't exist. (I personally do believe that some notes were left, but I suspect they were not complete, and were utterly ignored by Brian & Kevin. Because they is no explanation which makes more sense. There's no way he would have tied up with ser…

I dunno, when you re-read Heretics and Chapter House after knowing how it ends, you can see some set-ups for the ultimate big-bad. And Sonia's vision in God emperor does also link up. So, maybe? I lean towards thinking there were notes myself, as I can't see anyone making up that ending de-novo.

I can kinda see the argument, but the fact that the Butlerian Jihad was so rarely referenced in any detail makes me skeptical that the long-overthrown machines could arrive spontaneously and be the big-bad.

It seemed to me that the two figures in Duncans visions were going to become important, but they'd be rogue/evolved/advanced face-dancers rather than representatives of the machine intelligence.

I guess we'll never know for sure unless the notes are published.

Re: “Dune” Endures (2013)

#116

Post by dragonsngoblins »

sli wrote: post #45
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Catchphrases from the book have not entered the language. What an odd framing. True, perhaps, but what about from the 1984 movie? > "The spice must flow!" > "If you walk without rhythm, you won't attract the worm" > "It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion." Fra…

> ... what catchphrases from LOTR were (are?) remotely commonplace? "And my axe!" was common enough for a while. Less so now but it's still around. LOTR memes that rely on single lines with varying popularity are pretty common but that's probably stretching it.

YOU SHALL NOT PASS

"What's taters, eh?" and "They're taking the Hobbits to Isengard!" were also pretty memetic.

Re: “Dune” Endures (2013)

#117

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

stevekemp wrote: post #115
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, when you re-read Heretics and Chapter House after knowing how it ends, you can see some set-ups for the ultimate big-bad. And Sonia's vision in God emperor does also link up. So, maybe? I lean towards thinking there were notes myself, as I can't see anyone making up that ending de-novo.

I can kinda see the argument, but the fact that the Butlerian Jihad was so rarely referenced in any detail makes me skeptical that the long-overthrown machines could arrive spontaneously and be the big-bad. It seemed to me that the two figures in Duncans visions were going to become important, but they'd be rogue/evolved/advanced face-dancers rather than representatives of the machine intelligence. I guess we'll neve…

Seriously, Sonia's vision in God-Emperor is of humans being hunted down by machines - this is what the Golden Path was to avoid. So, I'm inclined to err on the side of the notes existing and mentioning machines.

Re: “Dune” Endures (2013)

#118

Post by gamblor956 »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #117
stevekemp wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can kinda see the argument, but the fact that the Butlerian Jihad was so rarely referenced in any detail makes me skeptical that the long-overthrown machines could arrive spontaneously and be the big-bad. It seemed to me that the two figures in Duncans visions were going to become important, but they'd be rogue/evolved/advanced face-dancers rather than representatives of the machine intelligence. I guess we'll neve…

Seriously, Sonia's vision in God-Emperor is of humans being hunted down by machines - this is what the Golden Path was to avoid. So, I'm inclined to err on the side of the notes existing and mentioning machines.

Siona's visions were about the danger of presience and the need for mankind to become free from those who would use fate/predestination as a means to control mankind. Avoiding the predestination paradox was literally the reason Leto created her.

Given the lengths that Frank Herbert went to avoid having computers in Dune, it would not make sense for his big bad to be a computer revealed in the last few pages of the series, especially when his big bad was always intended to be Destiny.

Re: “Dune” Endures (2013)

#119

Post by cannonedhamster »

airstrike wrote: post #10
cannonedhamster wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be in the minority but I liked the Dune movie. It introduced the universe, how it worked, had a solid cast. The movie is clearly one from the 80s with it's dedication to atmosphere.

What you call "dedication to atmosphere" felt just too over the top to many others. From one other review: "The second scene depicts the mysterious “Guild Navigator,” a brainiac character Lynch devises as a literal giant talking brain floating in a tank of brine. His mouth is triangular-shaped. There’s really no clean way of saying this, so here goes: It looks like a vagina. And it secretes gas. Lynch likes to shoot…

Yeah I can see that. It's definitely a personal taste thing. I'm just glad that many people have so many different things to enjoy.

Re: “Dune” Endures (2013)

#120

Post by phlakaton »

ozim wrote: post #102
stevekemp wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the curious the song is "To Tame a Land (1983)", and was going to be called Dune, but permission was not granted. When I think of unexpected Maiden I recall The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner, but this was a good crossover too.

I am not amused by that song, feels like cheap capitalization on "Dune" popularity at the time. Lyrics are nothing special, sounds are quite ok but I take "Wasted years" over this any time. Sounds like Sabbaton, who is capitalizing on "battle songs" for different countries. It is not like I don't like Iron Maiden but yeah, there is some metal band somewhere doing "Harry Potter" metal song. Though maybe I am too cynic…

If it makes you feel any better, I hear that Frank Herbert didn't like it either. :-)
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