Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is pointlessly over-dramatizing a clear and obvious fact. They went from risk tolerant to risk averse because the liability math changed. There's no conspiracy, its the simple difference between "not my problem" and "cover your ass".
It's a well known business strategy, run something important into the ground, get bailed out, rinse and repeat. Many companies are run badly on purpose.
‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room
171–180 of 291 posts
Re: ‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
My money is they get taken over by the state. Privatizing a utility was always a stupid move to begin with and they are finally proving it beyond any reasonable doubt. It's time we get to fixing all the damage Regan did to this country.
Do you see a legal pathway for this to happen? In one scenario, CA keeps legislating more and more liabilities to PG&E until it goes bankrupt, in which case the state could take it over, but would also be saddled with those same liabilities. Alternatively, they step back the liabilities and try to negotiate a deal with PG&E to take over, which would essentially be a buyout. However, what would the incentive be to sel…
Re: ‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room
#173Judge William Alsup (remember him?) who is overseeing the PG&E case in San Francisco said about shutoffs; “The prudent thing to do when you’re uncertain is to turn the power off,” he said. “When the public complains that everything in the refrigerator is bad and the ice cream melted, then you could blame the judge. I’m willing to take the heat.” [1] - https://www.kqed.org/news/11737336/judge-pge-paid-out-stock-...
Alsup is my favorite jurist. He's 74; may he preside forever. The above quote benefits from a little more context. Alsup's point is that PG&E paid dividends while slashing the maintenance budget — and as a judge, he's willing to step in and say "that's not right".
Re: ‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room
#174If you are trying to cut California's wildfire risk, increasing legal liability of its electric utility is about the dumbest place to put your leverage that anyone could imagine. California could turn its power grid off entirely and only make a small dent in overall fire risk over time. All that dry brush has to go away somehow, and nature has historically done it with fires (no PG&E necessary). Despite massive wealt…
Re: ‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In 2017 the company killed thousands of customers 47, not "thousands", assuming all the 2017 wildfire deaths were attributable to PG&E. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_California_wildfires
In addition to the forty-odd folks killed in 2017, PG&E started the the Camp Fire (2018) where 85 people died, one is still missing, and 17 were injured. Who knows how many will get sick from the chemicals leeching out of the plastic water infrastructure and into the water itself. In 2015, PG&E only killed two people (Butte Fire). PG&E also poisoned a few hundred in Hinkley (the town Erin Brockovich made famous). PG&…
Re: ‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's pretty common for rural areas in the U.S. to have power failures during storms. Maybe not in California, though?
Important context here is that there never was any storm. Shutting power as winds approach hurricane force is very sensible. Here (bay area) this week, the forecast was for winds in the 30mph range with gusts into the 40s. Windy yes, but hardly a storm. The kicker is the winds never arrived. PG&E shutdown was scheduled for noon Wednesday but there no wind at all. So they postponed it to 8pm. At 8pm, no wind either. N…
Winds were 30-40 mph in the hills in the north and east bay late Wednesday and early Thursday. Mt Diablo had 70+ mph gusts.
The wind forecasts were never for the low elevations.
Re: ‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room
#177Judge William Alsup (remember him?) who is overseeing the PG&E case in San Francisco said about shutoffs; “The prudent thing to do when you’re uncertain is to turn the power off,” he said. “When the public complains that everything in the refrigerator is bad and the ice cream melted, then you could blame the judge. I’m willing to take the heat.” [1] - https://www.kqed.org/news/11737336/judge-pge-paid-out-stock-...
I’m not saying there are easy fixes but I don’t think flippantly disregarding concern has the right approach either.
Re: ‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room
#178Judge William Alsup (remember him?) who is overseeing the PG&E case in San Francisco said about shutoffs; “The prudent thing to do when you’re uncertain is to turn the power off,” he said. “When the public complains that everything in the refrigerator is bad and the ice cream melted, then you could blame the judge. I’m willing to take the heat.” [1] - https://www.kqed.org/news/11737336/judge-pge-paid-out-stock-...
Alsup is my favorite jurist. He's 74; may he preside forever. The above quote benefits from a little more context. Alsup's point is that PG&E paid dividends while slashing the maintenance budget — and as a judge, he's willing to step in and say "that's not right".
But his point here is that if we’re willing to assign liability to PG&E for damages from a brushfire sparked tomorrow... if in your mind PG&E is truly responsible for any resulting death or destruction if a tree falls on their transmission lines during a time of critical fire risk and sparks a blaze.... then it is not only prudent, but it would be morally and economically imperative to shut down the lines during those critical risk periods.
There are several competing theories of liability and responsibility. Under strict liability, a fire happens, the root cause was an electrical spark, the utility is liable. You can’t operate a grid across all of California during 55mph winds at the end of the hot dry summer under those terms, and not go bankrupt.
From PG&E;
“California is one of the only states in the country in which courts have applied inverse condemnation to events caused by utility equipment. This means that if a utility’s equipment is found to have been a substantial cause of the damage in an event such as a wildfire – even if the utility has followed established inspection and safety rules – the utility may still be liable for property damages and attorneys’ fees associated with that event.”
There are a lot of variables in how damaging a wildfire may be. What sparked the fire is only one small variable in the chain of events. Forest management, building zones encroaching on forested areas, presence of fire brakes, disaster preparedness and response, emergency alerts all play a significant role, and those are just the factors CA can directly control. The weather, the climate is another matter.
“But for the spark” is a reductionist way to lay the blame for a multi-billion dollar fire. CA wildfires will burn every single year. The sparks are inevitable. The amount of preventative maintenance that theoretically can be done amounts to hundreds of billions of dollars.
It doesn’t serve CA’s common interest for electricity to cost $1/kWh. Risk mitigation is a statistical analysis, not an absolute. At some point you’ve invested enough that the risk is “mitigated” even if it isn’t “eliminated” and we accept this type of risk mitigation everywhere in modern life, the electrical grid should be no different.
How many people die driving on CA’s highways every year? How many could be saved with $100 billion of safety improvements? Do you shut them down until you can be certain no one else will die due to a deficient design or, perhaps, due to a gore point impact attenuator that hasn’t been reset?
A cursory look at PG&E financials shows that on ~$17b in revenue they spend ~$5b on supply and ~$7b on maintenance. They had been running $1-$1.5b surpluses the last few years. I wonder looking at other utilities how those ratios would stack up.
Would $1b more maintenance have prevented the Camp Fire? Entirely impossible to say. We do know that the full maintenance list runs into the $10s if not $100s of billions.
Re: ‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room
#179Electric cars have the potential to act as a backup power supply for your home to help mitigate power outages like these. The CCS and CHAdeMO standards are working on vehicle-to-home (and vehicle-to-grid) protocols: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x78XGElU2I0 https://www.chademo.com/technology/v2x/ https://insideevs.com/news/342354/charin-ccs-combo-standard-...
In previous blackouts I have connected a kilowatt inverter to the car and used it to power stuff. It worked great and it was very useful.
Re: ‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room
#180If you are trying to cut California's wildfire risk, increasing legal liability of its electric utility is about the dumbest place to put your leverage that anyone could imagine. California could turn its power grid off entirely and only make a small dent in overall fire risk over time. All that dry brush has to go away somehow, and nature has historically done it with fires (no PG&E necessary). Despite massive wealt…
If you are trying to reduce the risk of wildfires caused by PG&Es negligence, increasing its legal liability is the best place to push.
Having someone to blame is fun politics, but it's not going to get California out of the mess. It's not even a fire management problem. California covers a region of the world that has been having decades or centuries-long drought phases for millennia. The last few decades were built up during the good times. It's getting dryer now, and there will be more fires throughout this dry phase, however many years or decades it lasts.