Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City • Hacker News Board

Re: Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City

#41

Post by rinchik » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 11:53 PM UTC

tom_ wrote: post #40

rinchik wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah right, great fallacy! Great argument! Love when people throw Denmark, with population of 5M, under the bus while having not a slightest idea of what's actually going on. And why bother researching. Good old bernie sanders already said US can become a Denmark of tomorrow. Right? Right?? :D

Your argument could be improved. Like, for starters: what is actually going on? Don't leave us in suspense. Spit it out, lad.

That could be a great and passionate discussion over a beer with snacks and pizza. But since we are far removed (on the "internet") I'll just say that socialists tendencies are extremely destructive long term in complex economies/countries. My arguments are a nagging, somewhat harsh (maybe annoying), nudge towards research and unbiased conclusions about the matter. Unless you are a running "democratic" politician, you should get the gist.

Re: Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City

#42

Post by justAnotherNET » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 12:43 AM UTC

deforciant wrote: post #36

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust me, global warming does not sound like something bad for citizens of Norilsk.

Their buildings are collapsing due to permafrost disappearing :) Also it will release lots of pollution from the ground which will even further worsen environmental situation. So on one point yes, it will be warmer but it will make their life more difficult than it is now :(

Meanwhile, investing in beach front property in Greenland seems more and more prescient

Re: Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City

#43

Post by coldtea » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 12:54 AM UTC

antisthenes wrote: post #13

robertelder wrote: post #5

I find this city fascinating for some reason. It's something about the fact that it's so harsh, but humans are still able to live there. Here's a YouTube video of it that makes it look almost artistic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks9E9XQp_2k

Make no mistake - humans are only able to live there while burning copious amounts of hydrocarbons to stay warm and/or generate electricity. And they don't live particularly well. Also at the massive cost to the surrounding environment. I guess Inuits live in the extreme cold as well, but their entire world population is smaller than the city of Norilsk.

>Make no mistake - humans are only able to live there while burning copious amounts of hydrocarbons to stay warm and/or generate electricity. And they don't live particularly well.

People have lived in such places for millennia, before "burning copious amounts of hydrocarbons" was a thing...

Re: Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City

#44

Post by coldtea » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 12:57 AM UTC

tomohawk wrote: post #35

delibash___ wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it's unfettered state capitalism in this case. Stalin mandated Norilsk's development to enrich the state. Similar to the modern Chinese model. So socialism has little to nothing to do with it.

This is not even wrong.

Yes, it's right.

Re: Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City

#45

Post by LargoLasskhyfv » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 1:07 AM UTC

antisthenes wrote: post #13

robertelder wrote: post #5

I find this city fascinating for some reason. It's something about the fact that it's so harsh, but humans are still able to live there. Here's a YouTube video of it that makes it look almost artistic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks9E9XQp_2k

Make no mistake - humans are only able to live there while burning copious amounts of hydrocarbons to stay warm and/or generate electricity. And they don't live particularly well. Also at the massive cost to the surrounding environment. I guess Inuits live in the extreme cold as well, but their entire world population is smaller than the city of Norilsk.

That is not entirely correct, as there are other options, which happen to be deployed right now, in geographically similar locations:

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akademik_Lomonosov

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_floating_nuclear_power...

Re: Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City

#46

Post by mopsi » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 1:14 AM UTC

newshorts wrote: post #30

rinchik wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great point. Not sure about unfettered though, it's just socialism period. Everything is controlled by the government and not the market. Planned economy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_economy ). Unfortunately some see socialism as a candy, a glorious oasis we should all paddle towards without realization that it's a giant trap. A pure hell with great marketing for ordinary people.

Like Denmark?

I'm baffled every time I encounter the the widespread belief among young american adults that Northern Europe is a socialist utopia. Denmark ranks higher than the US in ease of doing business (regulations, taxation, etc), see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ease_of_doing_business_index#R..., but deregulation is not exactly what people bringing Denmark up as an example have in mind, is it?

Re: Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City

#47

Post by throwaway5752 » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 2:23 AM UTC

nnq wrote: post #3

Wow. I find these places amazing. I don't understand how they can "work". Like in... why do people stay?! Russia's a huge country and with free movement you'd imagine such places would get depopulated quickly...

It has the richest nickel-copper reserves in the world. Sulfide deposits from the vents of the largest large igneous province known (Siberian traps). People would be paid whatever is necessary to stay.

Re: Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City

#48

Post by lostmsu » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 4:03 AM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #34

lostmsu wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also at the massive cost to the surrounding environment. Assuming you didn't mean global warming here, there was never much of environment there humans could damage.

> there was never much of environment there humans could damage There’s a lot of ways humans can ruin the environment even without global warming.

By "there" I mean Norilsk.

Re: Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City

#49

Post by perl4ever » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 4:46 AM UTC

notyourday wrote: post #31

robertelder wrote: post #5

I find this city fascinating for some reason. It's something about the fact that it's so harsh, but humans are still able to live there. Here's a YouTube video of it that makes it look almost artistic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks9E9XQp_2k

Every time someone at a fancy party drinking Napa Cabernet and munching on double cream brie from France tells everyone that the United States and Europe can do just fine without China and Russia show them these Youtube videos. That pollution and those kind of hell on earth condition is what we have moved over there.

5 second Google indicates France and Australia both produce more nickel than Russia. Brazil is not far behind. China comes in 6th.

So, I think you picked a bad example.

Edit: the above may not be reliable - a different source puts the Philippines at the top. But anyway.

Re: Norilsk: Otherworldly Photos of an Arctic City

#50

Post by perl4ever » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 4:50 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #43

antisthenes wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make no mistake - humans are only able to live there while burning copious amounts of hydrocarbons to stay warm and/or generate electricity. And they don't live particularly well. Also at the massive cost to the surrounding environment. I guess Inuits live in the extreme cold as well, but their entire world population is smaller than the city of Norilsk.

> Make no mistake - humans are only able to live there while burning copious amounts of hydrocarbons to stay warm and/or generate electricity. And they don't live particularly well. People have lived in such places for millennia, before "burning copious amounts of hydrocarbons" was a thing...

Have they? Norilsk seems to have been founded in the 20th century, so I guess people have been living there during two different millennia, technically. But not before hydrocarbons.