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Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

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Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#111

Post by ajconway »

snagglegaggle wrote: post #91
greggman2 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time to run them in a VM with and old OS the same as older games?

Except this is explicitly against the TOS of macOS/OSX. This may be ok if you virtualize it on Apple hardware. Not that I care, and note the DMCA/property law has a specific exemption for defeating copy protection if you bought the thing. But it is more work than you make it out to be.

It's not against ToS to run VMs with Windows in them.

It's also fine to virtualize a copy of macOS on an original hardware, but it hardly does anything for gaming as there is still no GPU acceleration available for macOS guests.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#112

Post by scarface74 »

vortico wrote: post #100
scarface74 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in that case Apple should never introduced tighter security? Well, if you want yo stay in business selling your software, you have to keep it updated. Would you also be upset if you couldn’t still sell 68K software in 2019? You either update your software or people will buy something else. BareBones managed to sell and keep updating BBEdit between Apple transitioning from 68K Macs, PPC Macs, OS X and intel Macs. D…

It's always true that software must have a maintenance budget due to changing user markets. My point is that compared to Windows or Linux, Mac is very expensive to maintain software for. If your software has mostly cross-platform code, I would estimate based on my experience that the Mac-specific work is 10x that of the others. Let's just say thank God that `com.apple.security.cs.disable-library-validation` exists, s…

You really think that Microsoft or Adobe spends 10x as much to support the Mac? If the ROI on Macs is so horrible compared to Linux then why wouldn’t Adobe or MS be dropping Mac support and instead support Linux?

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#113

Post by opn7d7 »

cousin_it wrote: post #50

Funny thing about games: most revenue happens soon after release. It's like movies. A game from several years ago usually has low ongoing revenue, so there's little profit in updating it for a new OS. Many Mac games will just die. Especially indies, where the creator might have already moved on. Do you own any nice but not very successful Mac games? They'll die. This move destroys the reputation of Mac as a game plat…

This happens on PC too but it attracts so much more development we don’t notice.

Personally to avoid the problem on any platform, I took to making my own pipeline for rapidly iterating on games. Currently able to quickly cut and paste together a variety of experiments in my editor, play a bit to feed my urge for novelty, and happily save money not buying them.

I have one passion project which is a mix of isometric graphics, kotor group based single player, a “neverending” procedural world. Currently working on a system to have a chat bot feed NPCs dialog, as an experiment in “never ending” story building. I’m having more fun imagining and building it, I don’t even care if I finish it. Way more engaging than yet another “Skyrim clone with tits” or COD 19: Farting Dust

Like you said the major interest in a game is at launch, there’s not the same long lived community building the games used to have. Other than prettier graphics, there’s been little interesting going on, especially in the AAA space.

Even much of the indie scene is nostalgia dripping pixel graphics and same old design.

I am done spending on the business friendly view of what my hobby should look like. It’s generating too little new information of interest to me.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#114

Post by [deleted] »

Sendotsh wrote: post #89
skybrian wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the hand, most people stop playing most games pretty quickly after purchase, too. And the good ones often get remade. So, while this will disappoint some people, I think "destroys the reputation" is a bit much. Many game buyers don't care that much.

Top 2 games being played worldwide in steam right now were made 7 years ago. TF2 was made in 2007 and is still in the top 10. There’s also a huge number of gamers who played older games. In my friends list I’d say roughly half at any given time are imaging non-AA games that are at least 5 years old, and more than half at least regularly play older games. Going back and playing favourites is an absolutely integral par…

[deleted]

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#115

Post by scarface74 »

cwyers wrote: post #68
threeseed wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows on mobile was a mess. You couldn't just take any Windows app and run it. It had to be a specially designed UWP one of which there weren't many. And then there was different OSs depending on whether it was on ARM or not, running UWP exclusively or not. I am a developer and even I couldn't understand the rules. It's unquestionable that Microsoft's decision not to encourage developers to rewrite their apps (or a…

You can't run any Mac apps on iOS. I think Microsoft's big problem on mobile was if anything a first-mover disadvantage; they had Windows Mobile designed to compete with Blackberry and Java ME devices. The iPhone was able to basically produce a second-generation product that bested all of those things. Microsoft wasn't able to catch up the second generation by the time the market was entrenched, and I suspect that it…

The Xbox One isn’t a great example of a successful product. The whole XBox division still hasn’t recouped its losses.

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/251038-theres-no-profit-m...

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#116

Post by vortico »

scarface74 wrote: post #112
vortico wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always true that software must have a maintenance budget due to changing user markets. My point is that compared to Windows or Linux, Mac is very expensive to maintain software for. If your software has mostly cross-platform code, I would estimate based on my experience that the Mac-specific work is 10x that of the others. Let's just say thank God that `com.apple.security.cs.disable-library-validation` exists, s…

You really think that Microsoft or Adobe spends 10x as much to support the Mac? If the ROI on Macs is so horrible compared to Linux then why wouldn’t Adobe or MS be dropping Mac support and instead support Linux?

Yes, platform-specific expenses are 10x on Mac vs. Linux and Windows. I said nothing about ROI. You're confusing that with platform-specific expenses.

ROI of platform = number of platform users * price - "platform-specific expenses"

Hopefully you can see why even if "platform-specific expenses" is high, the ROI of the platform can be higher than another platform, because the number of platform users is much higher.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#117

Post by novok »

Sendotsh wrote: post #89
skybrian wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the hand, most people stop playing most games pretty quickly after purchase, too. And the good ones often get remade. So, while this will disappoint some people, I think "destroys the reputation" is a bit much. Many game buyers don't care that much.

Top 2 games being played worldwide in steam right now were made 7 years ago. TF2 was made in 2007 and is still in the top 10. There’s also a huge number of gamers who played older games. In my friends list I’d say roughly half at any given time are imaging non-AA games that are at least 5 years old, and more than half at least regularly play older games. Going back and playing favourites is an absolutely integral par…

Those games with active revenue streams and playerbases will probably get OS updates.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#118

Post by my123 »

Aloha wrote: post #23

I can understand eliminating CarbonLib support, though I would have made CarbonLib an optional component you needed to install on the OS a couple years ago to make it clear this was now an optional component that may no longer be supported in the near future. I also don't get why they would eliminate all 32-bit userspace support though - like why eliminate support for 32-bit Cocoa apps, and I think Apple made a mista…

My guess: the old fragile Objective-C runtime ABI.

They could have done a new ABI, but that'd have broken compatibility anyway...

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#119

Post by scarface74 »

ratww wrote: post #109
scarface74 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean they failed to account for that? They have a mechanism for signed apps outside of the store that doesn’t cost the developers anything and even that can be bypassed by a simple control click. But for reference. PPC Macs were introduced in 1994 and 68K emulation was dropped in 2006 with the introduction of x86 based Macs. OS X was introduced in 2001 and OS 9 support was dropped in 2006. PPC support was…

> PPC support was dropped in 2006 (?) And Rosetta, the PPC emulator, was dropped in 2011, with Lion. Only five years after the last PowerPC machine was discontinued. Less than half the time it took to discontinue 32-bit.

Correction I meant MacOS 9 support was dropped.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#120

Post by snagglegaggle »

threeseed wrote: post #44
Pmop wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft did manage to port Windows to mobile platforms, with success to some extent. Notice that it's Windows for Desktop that maintains support for legacy software. Support for legacy software isn't necessarily detrimental to success. Microsoft's lost battle in phone market has nothing to do with it. In addition, Microsoft seems to be doing just fine in the other markets, and it's been growing on cloud, which we m…

Windows on mobile was a mess. You couldn't just take any Windows app and run it. It had to be a specially designed UWP one of which there weren't many. And then there was different OSs depending on whether it was on ARM or not, running UWP exclusively or not. I am a developer and even I couldn't understand the rules. It's unquestionable that Microsoft's decision not to encourage developers to rewrite their apps (or a…

This is partially right -- before "modern" Windows Phone spun off of 8.1 and 10 there was a Windows 7-esque mobile OS, and one that tracked XP. They still ran on different processors, but with an API very similar to the desktop OS. But, comparing them to Android they did not have any major benefits or detriments.

What I think made them fail was their relative obscurity. For non-Intel platforms, Microsoft is very much in favor of boot locking and a lack of consumer control, perhaps at the behest of hardware creators who insist on NDAs. So these things were never really publicized.

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