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Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

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Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#91

Post by snagglegaggle »

greggman2 wrote: post #77
cousin_it wrote: post #50

Funny thing about games: most revenue happens soon after release. It's like movies. A game from several years ago usually has low ongoing revenue, so there's little profit in updating it for a new OS. Many Mac games will just die. Especially indies, where the creator might have already moved on. Do you own any nice but not very successful Mac games? They'll die. This move destroys the reputation of Mac as a game plat…

Time to run them in a VM with and old OS the same as older games?

Except this is explicitly against the TOS of macOS/OSX. This may be ok if you virtualize it on Apple hardware.

Not that I care, and note the DMCA/property law has a specific exemption for defeating copy protection if you bought the thing. But it is more work than you make it out to be.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#92

Post by fortran77 »

ahbyb wrote: post #66
cousin_it wrote: post #50

Funny thing about games: most revenue happens soon after release. It's like movies. A game from several years ago usually has low ongoing revenue, so there's little profit in updating it for a new OS. Many Mac games will just die. Especially indies, where the creator might have already moved on. Do you own any nice but not very successful Mac games? They'll die. This move destroys the reputation of Mac as a game plat…

>This move destroys the reputation of Mac as a game platform You can't destroy what never existed.

My first thought too. Nobody buys a Mac for gaming. I can't think of any Mac games other than "Myst"

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#93

Post by toyg »

greggman2 wrote: post #77
cousin_it wrote: post #50

Funny thing about games: most revenue happens soon after release. It's like movies. A game from several years ago usually has low ongoing revenue, so there's little profit in updating it for a new OS. Many Mac games will just die. Especially indies, where the creator might have already moved on. Do you own any nice but not very successful Mac games? They'll die. This move destroys the reputation of Mac as a game plat…

Time to run them in a VM with and old OS the same as older games?

Games in a VM are often unplayable. Even something as old as the original Age of Empires is pretty bad when run under VirtualBox or VmWare Fusion.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#94

Post by pointerpointer »

The scheme behind the lack of downwards compatibility was always a pain with OSX. It's great for the app developers because they can offer you a paid upgrade to a new compatible version. But UX wise it's so bad it makes you consider moving to another OS.

I once had ProTools on a MacPro and found it out the hard way. I thought I could just upgrade to the next OSX version like with almost any other OS. But after the upgrade many apps including ProTools didn't work anymore and could only get up an running again after paying thousands of euro's to upgrade not only ProTools, also all it's plugins and a lot of other unrelated apps as well. That was my last MacPro, and I never bought and never will buy any OSX app again.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#95

Post by scarface74 »

turndown wrote: post #63
scarface74 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not having to worry about yet another security vulnerability caused by 10 year old code does impact me. It’s also nice to have other Apple products that MS could never produce because they worshipped at the alter of backwards compatibility. Running outdated code on a bloated operating system doesn’t benefit me.

>Not having to worry about yet another security vulnerability caused by 10 year old code does impact me. Surely you're not suggesting that OS X is somehow more secure because it doesn't provide as much backwards compatability? >It’s also nice to have other Apple products that MS could never produce because they worshipped at the alter of backwards compatibility. It is looking more and more like Apple cannot produce p…

By definition, the less code you have to maintain the less surface area for vulnerabilities.

It is looking more and more like Apple cannot produce products other people can, not the other way around. Most of their recent product announcements(2017 and after, especially) have begun to look quite disappointing in my eyes.

If that were true, you would see Apple’s products trending downward when other competitors are trending upwards.....

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#97

Post by ratww »

behnamoh wrote: post #58
threeseed wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2019 and you're still bringing up Flash ? And if you do own a Mac which I highly doubt you would know that nothing really has changed. I can still run the apps I want. I can still use Homebrew to install CLI tools and libraries. I still don't need to use the App Store. The only difference is that they finally got rid of 32-bit support which was a decision years in the making.

I don't have to prove to you that I own a Mac. Plus, bringing up flash was to further explain my point, which is, Apple getting rid of certain technologies in the computer sector as if they are the leader of the market which they are not. They already are struggling to keep their current users, and a move like this (getting rid of 32-bit apps) further decreases their market share.

> a move like this (getting rid of 32-bit apps) further decreases their market share.

Bullshit.

More than 99% of users don't care about 32-bit support. 64-bit has been available for 12 years (since Leopard), and most of the industry (and users) has moved forward.

Apple has been doing it for years, and every time they remove cruft people like you start predicting their doom. But pissing off that 1% of users has been pretty much their only winning strategy.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#98

Post by toyg »

Sendotsh wrote: post #89
skybrian wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the hand, most people stop playing most games pretty quickly after purchase, too. And the good ones often get remade. So, while this will disappoint some people, I think "destroys the reputation" is a bit much. Many game buyers don't care that much.

Top 2 games being played worldwide in steam right now were made 7 years ago. TF2 was made in 2007 and is still in the top 10. There’s also a huge number of gamers who played older games. In my friends list I’d say roughly half at any given time are imaging non-AA games that are at least 5 years old, and more than half at least regularly play older games. Going back and playing favourites is an absolutely integral par…

In fact, the move towards internet-based multiplayer action has significantly extended game longevity. In the pre-Internet world, very few games ever achieved the sort of long-running activity you now get almost routinely with any moderately-successful production.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#99

Post by Aloha »

scarface74 wrote: post #34
Aloha wrote: post #23

I can understand eliminating CarbonLib support, though I would have made CarbonLib an optional component you needed to install on the OS a couple years ago to make it clear this was now an optional component that may no longer be supported in the near future. I also don't get why they would eliminate all 32-bit userspace support though - like why eliminate support for 32-bit Cocoa apps, and I think Apple made a mista…

At what point should they drop support?

For carbonlib? No idea, now seems fine. For 32-bit cocoa apps? I see no obvious technical reason to drop support, unless I'm missing something.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#100

Post by vortico »

scarface74 wrote: post #90
vortico wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's nonsense because it didn't exist before. Imagine you're a long-time user of my software. You upgrade your operating system (because's Apple's marketing tells you to) and find that my software doesn't work anymore. Who made the change? Apple. Who do customers complain to? Me. Despite any argument, Apple's change has cost me $1000+ of development costs for users to continue using my software. Apple is not my custo…

So in that case Apple should never introduced tighter security? Well, if you want yo stay in business selling your software, you have to keep it updated. Would you also be upset if you couldn’t still sell 68K software in 2019? You either update your software or people will buy something else. BareBones managed to sell and keep updating BBEdit between Apple transitioning from 68K Macs, PPC Macs, OS X and intel Macs. D…

It's always true that software must have a maintenance budget due to changing user markets.

My point is that compared to Windows or Linux, Mac is very expensive to maintain software for. If your software has mostly cross-platform code, I would estimate based on my experience that the Mac-specific work is 10x that of the others.

Let's just say thank God that `com.apple.security.cs.disable-library-validation` exists, so the 150 plugin developers for VCV Rack don't have to go through the notarization nonsense that I do. That would truly kill the software, or would force users to disable GateKeeper altogether (with `sudo spctl --master-disable`) to use.

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