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Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

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Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#271

Post by buboard »

capocannoniere wrote: post #97

I'd argue the outcome of this will be that Facebook will launch their own payments infrastructure on top of WhatsApp. There was no need for crypto or a Libra association to begin with. According to the leaked Facebook all-hands audio, Facebook is already planning to launch payments in Mexico by end of 2019 ( https://qz.com/1719731/zuckerberg-confirms-facebook-payment-... ). I wouldn't be surprised if this goes extrem…

I d certainly download whatsapp if they did. It's just mad that there is no such service in the west. It makes a lot of sense really, they 'd avoid the whole negative publicitly and they could have released it as quietly as they did with facebook credits long ago

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#272

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

buboard wrote: post #263
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered moving to Europe? I'm being slightly facetious, but there are banks here that are better at all of these.

Where in europe? Banks are vastly different and there is no banking union. and they have failed in the past

There is not a “banking union” in the sense of deposit protection, but the Single Euro Payments Area means transfers between any two Eurozone banks are no different than between banks in the same country.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#273

Post by htfu »

bobthepanda wrote: post #164
throwaway1777 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is there doesn’t need to be a bank of last resort with libra.

What about it indicates that? Libra is backed by a basket of currencies or investments designed to spread risk around, which is a great idea unless a huge chunk goes belly up at the same time. And then what? We repeat the subprime mortgage crisis, where people also thought that there would never be mass defaults across the system at the same time?

But if a huge chunk of major global currencies go belly-up at the same time the world has much larger issues than Libra taking a, say 20% dive - the volatility in all kinds of sectors would dwarf that.

All other aspects of the design strike me as either dumb, redundant or dangerous, but this would be the one part of the system not to worry about.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#274

Post by tuananh »

masternda wrote: post #235
lyqwyd wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you consider non-trivial? I transfer money to Africa on a regular basis, and I don’t have these same issues other than the difference between published exchange rate and realized, which is about 1-1.5%. Transfer fees are minimal. I transfer about $3,000 per month, but no I could go up to at least $10K without issue. Occasionally it can have a bit of a delay, but normally it closes in less than a minute, and I…

It is trivial when you are transferring from a Western country to an African country using services like Transferwise, Worldremit, etc but I consider transferring money from Africa to a western country non-trivial. I have personally experienced this when parents are trying to pay for tuition fees, upkeep allowance, etc. This is one of the great advantages I see Libra bringing.

so parent use actual money to buy libra, transfer it and their children exchange libra back to actual money again?

i wonder how much money is actually left after the whole transaction

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#275

Post by lmm »

grey-area wrote: post #230
capableweb wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a for-profit company is running the currency, the users of the currency are in a loosing position. Remember, the for-profit company wants profit, so good luck fighting with them about the currency. "hundreds of global currencies" sounds like a good idea to me too, as long as they are out of the hands of for-profit companies.

If a for-profit company is running the currency, the users of the currency are in a loosing position True, but exactly the same applies to a state running the currency, with even more evidence of malfeasance and manipulation. State currency loses significant value every year by design, and the management of it is really opaque. I’d rather a cooperative mutually owned currency to either corporate or state control.

If you're imagining a mutual organisation of millions of people who are theoretically on equal standing and have a say in governance as far as possible, wouldn't that look rather like a state? What's the practical distinction you're drawing between a cooperative mutual organisation and a state?

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#276

Post by lmm »

pmarreck wrote: post #195
aazaa wrote: post #70

> A Visa spokesperson told The Verge. “Visa has decided not to join the Libra Association at this time,” the spokesperson said. “We will continue to evaluate and our ultimate decision will be determined by a number of factors, including the Association’s ability to fully satisfy all requisite regulatory expectations.” I suspect the regulatory pushback was the least of the problem. These companies (and PayPal) have ev…

Open-source cryptocurrencies that (ideally) no single entity mainly profits from, are still the future, IMHO. I don't get why people would get excited about Libra who weren't already excited by some other cryptocurrency. Violate an arbitrary rule in financial institutions? Guilty until proven innocent. (I have real-world experience, here) Violate an arbitrary rule in crypto and... oh wait, crypto doesn't have rules a…

> Violate an arbitrary rule in crypto and... oh wait, crypto doesn't have rules and doesn't judge your morality. (Neither does cash or gold, so be careful about using this as an argument against it.)

The argument goes through just the same? Cash, gold, cryptocurrencies and bearer bonds are all popular with criminals and crazies.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#277

Post by htfu »

bobthepanda wrote: post #177
throwaway1777 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libra is not a bank, it’s a currency that’s pegged to other currencies. The asset backing is only because the initial value has to come from somewhere. It can’t default. It could decrease in value, but there’s no debt or counter party risk.

A run on a currency is still pretty disastrous for everybody involved, hence the need for a bank of last resort to shore up the currency when that happens. All these alternative currencies look like they're solving a political science problem, not any actual problems that people have.

A run on the currency just becomes a run on the underlying currencies, which, as a basket of global currencies, cannot all be run at once since each one is inherently relative to the others.

Second point is right on the money though!

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#278

Post by moonbug »

lucasverra wrote: post #236
te_chris wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like the eur, usd, aud, nzd, gbp, jpy? That sort of stable and reliable currency with a strong banking infrastructure?

yeah, those are the ones you can't sent 2 or 3 units of abroad in a minute by chat, where the receiver is not taxed 2-5%

that's just the broken, backwards US banking system.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#279

Post by capableweb »

kebman wrote: post #133
capableweb wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a for-profit company is running the currency, the users of the currency are in a loosing position. Remember, the for-profit company wants profit, so good luck fighting with them about the currency. "hundreds of global currencies" sounds like a good idea to me too, as long as they are out of the hands of for-profit companies.

Funny. The USA seems to have the complete opposite view to yours! :D The Federal Reserve is just about as close to a private company as any, running your entire economy. Certainly it's a for profit venture. But then that's profits funneled away from public coffers, and not to it. Sure, the Fed has a pretty clear mandate from the Congress, deputizing them into a certain public role, but other than that, they receive l…

I agree with you, just wanted to let you know that "running your entire economy" is not accurate as I don't live there. We would all be a little better by not assuming things about people :)

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#280

Post by [deleted] »

john_moscow wrote: post #39

Call me cynical, but the whole idea of Libra would be disruptive to the existing international payment businesses, such as the ones that just exited. So the only reason for them to join in the first place would be to basically "know your enemy" - make certain you get the first-person intel on the project's vitals and to know what to expect. Now that a couple of governments made it clear that there would be roadblocks…

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