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Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

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Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#211

Post by sumedh »

kevinyun wrote: post #199
trakout wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which service, something like transferwise?

I recently tried helping someone transfer $10k from US to different country. Only after signing up, filling in all the details, and going through the entire process, was there an error message that showed a Max of $800 could be transferred. I then just advised to use their local bank's wire transfer, which they had to visit in person at the local branch, as they had originally intended. Nowhere in my Google searches…

Is this some account specific limit or a country specific limit?

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#212

Post by keymone »

Illniyar wrote: post #202
lucasverra wrote: post #55

David Marcus update [1] : Special thanks to @Visa and @Mastercard for sticking it out until the 11th hour. The pressure has been intense (understatement), and I respect their decision to wait until there’s regulatory clarity for @Libra_ to proceed, vs. the invoked threats (by many) on their biz. I would caution against reading the fate of Libra into this update. Of course, it’s not great news in the short term, but i…

Since Libra isn't distributed, in the sense that anyone can start mining it, one of the key premises for its trust was that governance and operation will be handled by a group of powerful and trustworthy companies. The more companies leave the initiative the more centralized it becomes and the less its trust model is valid. If only Facebook remains it isn't any different than a simple virtual currency (like the disco…

> powerful and trustworthy companies

That’s an oxymoron in general, but also specifically, did you just say Facebook is trustworthy? O_o

Low quality comment, I know, I just couldn’t resist.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#213

Post by lawn »

nostrademons wrote: post #21
Matthias247 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand if it weren't facebook they likely would not even have been interested in yet-another cryptocurrency. Especially if it's even not available, but just a work-in-progress thing.

They've been interested for a while - Stripe used to accept Bitcoin, and various Stripe employees have said they're watching developments in the space. For that matter, a number of other big tech companies (notably Apple) said they're watching the space. I think the main issue is that cryptocurrency still has a few unsolved research & regulatory problems (like how to handle more than 10 TPS, or how to record taxes tr…

Cryptocurrencies do have scaling issues, but it's very easy to process more than 10 TPS. Just because Bitcoin chose not to doesn't mean others cannot.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#214

Post by keymone »

I hope Facebook manages to launch Libra and that’ll be the final trigger for regulators to chime in, slap them on the wrist and break up all the giant corps. The degree to which they are invading our privacy and are greedy for power and control over people’s lives is beyond scary.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#215

Post by electriclove »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #66
journalctl wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me old-fashioned, but I would rather have a government manage my money. Buying groceries with Facebook scrip isn’t my idea of a good time.

I don't insist on being sure it is actually going to work this way and Facebook isn't going to have the power over Libra yet the available concept says it's not meant to. Libra is meant to set you free (libre), not to be managed by Facebook or anybody. I am and many are totally sick of PayPal blocking accounts for no reason, requiring residence verification, charging ridiculous commissions, etc. Libra was supposed to…

We do, just not anything of the sort from Facebook.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#216

Post by thefounder »

Illniyar wrote: post #202
lucasverra wrote: post #55

David Marcus update [1] : Special thanks to @Visa and @Mastercard for sticking it out until the 11th hour. The pressure has been intense (understatement), and I respect their decision to wait until there’s regulatory clarity for @Libra_ to proceed, vs. the invoked threats (by many) on their biz. I would caution against reading the fate of Libra into this update. Of course, it’s not great news in the short term, but i…

Since Libra isn't distributed, in the sense that anyone can start mining it, one of the key premises for its trust was that governance and operation will be handled by a group of powerful and trustworthy companies. The more companies leave the initiative the more centralized it becomes and the less its trust model is valid. If only Facebook remains it isn't any different than a simple virtual currency (like the disco…

What people want is a stable currency that they can use where ever they want. That means at atm/mfm machines, pos, internet and p2p. They couldn't care less if visa/mastercard or JPMorgan is behind it. The issue is that without visa/mastercard is hard to convince banks and merchants to accept this new currency.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#218

Post by grey-area »

lacker wrote: post #38

I hope this doesn't cause Facebook to give up on Libra. I personally have no desire to own Libra. But traditional bank accounts kind of suck as a product and I would like to see more tech companies competing with them. The problems with bank accounts: 1. They charge you fees for things 2. They try to upsell me stupid financial products 3. They are not easy to use in other countries 4. Typing in my credit card number…

The rules are big tech companies are not allowed to compete with nation states. New currencies would supplant those of nation states and reduce their power, hence the pushback.

Facebook is the last company I’d want to see dominate the coming global corporate currencies. They are unscrupulous, dishonest to the core, and willing to cheat partners and customers alike to get what they want.

IMO banks rather than currencies will be the first area tech companies can push into, then payment networks, then eventually currencies as nation states wither away.

There are some tech companies competing with banks and payment networks already, with some success, particularly in the UK. It will take a while for them to supplant traditional banks but I see it as inevitable and, for the reasons you point out, not too difficult, as the incumbents are sclerotic and unable to grasp the importance of software.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#219

Post by jimnotgym »

john_moscow wrote: post #129
lucasverra wrote: post #55

David Marcus update [1] : Special thanks to @Visa and @Mastercard for sticking it out until the 11th hour. The pressure has been intense (understatement), and I respect their decision to wait until there’s regulatory clarity for @Libra_ to proceed, vs. the invoked threats (by many) on their biz. I would caution against reading the fate of Libra into this update. Of course, it’s not great news in the short term, but i…

The fate of Libra isn't tied to Visa/Mastercard's withdrawal. It's ultimately about whether there is a market for a new mechanism for international money transfers. As someone who runs a business that has (small) offices both in EU and North America, let me share a quick overview of the current state of things. When you want to transfer a non-trivial amount of money between 2 countries, you have likely received it in…

This is a good summary. I just wanted to add that it can be easier even than that. I look after this sort of thing sometimes. I would normally have USD, GBP, EUR accounts at my local bank. Any money from abroad can be wired directly in to those accounts. If I want to trade between currencies I can then do it through my bank, which can cost me '20 pips', which means on a GBPUSD deal I pay 0.0020 over spot atm (trading around $4m a year. YMMV). This is at the click of a button, or a phone call. But I can do other convenient things through the same platform to hedge risk. I can hedge, for instance I can agree to buy sterling sell dollars at $100k a month for the next year at agreed rates to protect a contract from fx risk. I can swap currency with the bank for a few days for even more trivial fees, swaps are useful when you have too much of the one currency this week, but need it back to pay a supplier next week, or indeed if your forward contracts are arriving and you are not ready for them yet.

In summary I agree, it is not hard in NA or EMEA to send intentional funds

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#220

Post by pasxizeis »

rocqua wrote: post #85
capableweb wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Simply hunt down vendors who accept Bitcoin and organizations who facilitate its exchange. This is commonly a argument for having drugs illegal too. "If we hunt them down, eventually there will be no one left" What we know now, is that making something illegal, could make it stronger. If Bitcoin becomes illegal in most country, would the price go up or down? Suddenly there is a black market, and opens up a whole ot…

Thing is, people have 'good reason' to want drugs: They feel good, and mostly, people get addicted. Moreover, there is much less of a scale requirement for drugs. It is pretty easy to make money on drugs when 0.1% of all people are using your drugs. Whereas, a currency used by 0.1% of your friends / neighbors is totally useless. These reasons make it 1) easier to suppress a currency 2) harder to suppress drugs.

This. Demand for drugs was, and I imagine will always be huge.
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