Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15 • Hacker News Board

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#31

Post by mjtsai » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:03 AM UTC

njhaveri wrote: post #22

ganitarashid wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never figured out how to force Apple Mail to download ALL attachments. How do I do this? In my experience it never downloads ALL of them and when you’re offline and click on a very old message it will not have the attachment unless you go online.

You can set this preference by going to the Mail menu > Preferences > Accounts. Select the account you want to adjust on the left, and in the first "Account Information" tab, there should be a pop-up for Download Attachments: [All, Recent, None]. The default for newly added accounts is "Recent".

The preference doesn’t actually do what it says, as mentioned in the original post. Starting with macOS 10.12, it doesn’t always download all the attachments, and even ones that did download (because you viewed the message) may get purged later.

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#32

Post by EricE » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:09 AM UTC

derefr wrote: post #23

Alex3917 wrote: post #15

Not surprising. The new Podcasts app deleted years of downloaded podcasts when I updated, including a lot that are no longer hosted on the web. For some reason the "sensible default" in the new app is to delete anything beyond the most recent ten episodes. Now I need to remember to restore from backup before it gets overwritten, heh.

> For some reason Giving you the other side of this: Podcasts was essentially a disk-space-leak made app, if you subscribed to any podcasts that you never actually listened to (but still listened to others, and therefore regularly opened the app.) It would just pile up new unplayed episodes forever, eventually taking up tens of GBs of space, on a device that doesn't have all that much space to spare.

That's a piss poor excuse. Never assume; at a minimum ask! I have many podcasts saved that as the OP points out, are no longer publicly available. A few are now locked behind a paywall but many others aren't available - period.

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#33

Post by robryan » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:10 AM UTC

derefr wrote: post #23

Alex3917 wrote: post #15

Not surprising. The new Podcasts app deleted years of downloaded podcasts when I updated, including a lot that are no longer hosted on the web. For some reason the "sensible default" in the new app is to delete anything beyond the most recent ten episodes. Now I need to remember to restore from backup before it gets overwritten, heh.

> For some reason Giving you the other side of this: Podcasts was essentially a disk-space-leak made app, if you subscribed to any podcasts that you never actually listened to (but still listened to others, and therefore regularly opened the app.) It would just pile up new unplayed episodes forever, eventually taking up tens of GBs of space, on a device that doesn't have all that much space to spare.

Easily solved by a notification on first use after updating which asks if you want the new default.

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#34

Post by EricE » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:11 AM UTC

ggregoire wrote: post #6

Why do people use Mail? (genuine question)

The best feature is (for me anyway) it's fast and works consistently across all my devices. I've yet to have a reason to move to anything else.

If I was someone continually running into issues as some seem to continually have happen I might not feel that way, but I've been on the Catalina and iOS 13 betas and thankfully even with the betas didn't have issues.

EDIT: I did have earlier versions of the iOS betas duplicate draft messages. Which lead to confusion and double sending since at first glance it looked like like I hadn't sent a message in drafts; once I figured out what was going on I would just check my sent to make sure I sent it before deleting the dupe in drafts. At least it wasn't a data loss bug.

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#35

Post by MagnumPIG » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:12 AM UTC

derefr wrote: post #23

Alex3917 wrote: post #15

Not surprising. The new Podcasts app deleted years of downloaded podcasts when I updated, including a lot that are no longer hosted on the web. For some reason the "sensible default" in the new app is to delete anything beyond the most recent ten episodes. Now I need to remember to restore from backup before it gets overwritten, heh.

> For some reason Giving you the other side of this: Podcasts was essentially a disk-space-leak made app, if you subscribed to any podcasts that you never actually listened to (but still listened to others, and therefore regularly opened the app.) It would just pile up new unplayed episodes forever, eventually taking up tens of GBs of space, on a device that doesn't have all that much space to spare.

Option 1: Fix the leak, i.e. the download strategy.

Option 2: BURN IT ALL.

Guess which one I don't want my apps to ever do.

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#36

Post by thelittleone » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:16 AM UTC

The position of Apple today reminds me a lot of Microsoft after they peaked (~2000?). Cocky to the point of arrogance because of market position, past innovations and brand loyalty (e.g., it is cool to own Apple). But loyalty and market sentiment can only endure so much amidst plummeting product quality, nonsensical pricing (e.g. dongles) and lack of any meaningful innovation (thinner doesn't count). Apple doesn't listen because they think they know better (and that used to be true).

- Peaked in terms of brand perception rather than market cap or market share.

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#37

Post by xattt » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:23 AM UTC

thelittleone wrote: post #36

The position of Apple today reminds me a lot of Microsoft after they peaked (~2000?). Cocky to the point of arrogance because of market position, past innovations and brand loyalty (e.g., it is cool to own Apple). But loyalty and market sentiment can only endure so much amidst plummeting product quality, nonsensical pricing (e.g. dongles) and lack of any meaningful innovation (thinner doesn't count). Apple doesn't li…

The Mail app in Leopard had a bug that would spam recipients with copies of drafts as they were typed and saved automatically by the app.

Not an apologist, but showstopper bugs were a thing even under Jobs.

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#38

Post by fastball » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:28 AM UTC

thelittleone wrote: post #36

The position of Apple today reminds me a lot of Microsoft after they peaked (~2000?). Cocky to the point of arrogance because of market position, past innovations and brand loyalty (e.g., it is cool to own Apple). But loyalty and market sentiment can only endure so much amidst plummeting product quality, nonsensical pricing (e.g. dongles) and lack of any meaningful innovation (thinner doesn't count). Apple doesn't li…

It wasn't obvious at the time, but I think in retrospect the case can be made that Apple's ability to innovate effectively (both in terms of time and quality) died with Jobs.

Jony Ive made a good effort to keep pushing hardware design forward, but without Jobs to curb his worst impulses (in my opinion), the end was result was "thinner above all else" (as you mention).

If someone can come up with a corporate structure that allows for the dynamism provided by having a visionary dictator at the helm, without actually needing a visionary dictator, that would be a corporate structure that would take the world by storm.

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#39

Post by spsful » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:31 AM UTC

mey wrote: post #29

derefr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For some reason Giving you the other side of this: Podcasts was essentially a disk-space-leak made app, if you subscribed to any podcasts that you never actually listened to (but still listened to others, and therefore regularly opened the app.) It would just pile up new unplayed episodes forever, eventually taking up tens of GBs of space, on a device that doesn't have all that much space to spare.

Doesn't excuse user data loss

He didn't say it was an excuse, though; he just provided another perspective that may explain why Apple made the new Podcasts app that way.

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#40

Post by herpderperator » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:33 AM UTC

I always find it strange when OS updates affect apps in this way. It just shouldn't happen. It reminds me of when Linus preaches that "the kernel should never break userspace". Why would a OS update suddenly cause the Mail app -- developed by the same company as the OS, for what it's worth -- to have these strange (and catastrophic) data syncing issues?

And, just to add, I am tired of OS updates updating and/or releasing userspace things like "Music" and saying:

> iTunes forever changed the way people experienced music, movies, TV shows, and podcasts. It all changes again with three all-new, dedicated apps — Apple Music, Apple TV, and Apple Podcasts — each designed from the ground up to be the best way to enjoy entertainment on your Mac. [0]

It is literally the FIRST thing they advertise. What does that have to do with the OS? Nothing! They should release apps separately from major OS versions.

[0] https://www.apple.com/macos/catalina/