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Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

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Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#111

Post by kebman »

rmilejczz wrote: post #93
rifung wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What we know now, is that making something illegal, could make it stronger. If Bitcoin becomes illegal in most country, would the price go up or down? Suddenly there is a black market, and opens up a whole other can of worms, so governments might not be able to simply outlaw it. It's not as though drugs became more popular because they became illegal. Prices may have gone up because they were harder to obtain and t…

But they didn’t become less popular either, and instead continued to rise and grow in popularity. That’s the point, outlawing it won’t stop it. If bitcoins were illegal then I imagine they would probably only be used in illegal transactions.

To clarify: Necessarily, if Bitcoin was illegal, any transaction with it would of course be illegal. :p That isn't to say that any and all transactions made with it, would be for the exchange of illegal goods. You can of course also use Bitcoin for the exchange of legal goods, but taking Bitcoin even for legal goods, would hence be illegal. In any case, just like people speeding, drinking moonshine, or enjoying marijuana where it's not allowed, I'm just as sure that very few would care.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#112

Post by catalogia »

sremani wrote: post #101
throwaway2048 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is good for libra(coin)?

He is re-framing it to "when the times get tough the tough get going" mode. Its also a signal, that they are going to move forward what ever that is. Good or Bad, its hard to tell for the project but at least you are left with the feeling that Libra team is formidable and preparing to weather the storm. If I have to guess, something is going to come out it from this project, either a policy clarity from governments o…

> "Its also a signal, that they are going to move forward what ever that is"

In much the same way that your keys are always in the last place you look, the last thing people say before "I give up" is often "I'm going to keep going." I expect Libra to be officially dead by the end of the year, although Facebook might slap the name onto some unrelated project in an attempt to save face.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#113

Post by core-questions »

hinkley wrote: post #79
osrec wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. My definition of a decentralised system is not one that's controlled by a handful of entities...

And yet, a lot of people have been confused into thinking things like The Cloud are decentralized. I’m not sure how this got broken, but a few powerful companies seem to be running with it.

Well, relative to the tiny datacenter you might have for an office, it's "decentralized"... but yes, only in a marketing sense.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#114

Post by kllrnohj »

ttul wrote: post #84
justinzollars wrote: post #3

I'm actually kind of bummed out about this. I may not like FB, but I like the idea of a digital currency backed by a floating basket of currencies.

Then let’s have the central banks of the G7 set up a cryptocurrency that’s backed by actual reserve currency. Why put Facebook in the middle?

If the central banks of the G7 are the authority, then why bother with any crypto nonsense? You've just described the Euro, more or less. No need to burn any electricity on a proof of work & public ledger system.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#115

Post by SI_Rob »

hinkley wrote: post #79
osrec wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. My definition of a decentralised system is not one that's controlled by a handful of entities...

And yet, a lot of people have been confused into thinking things like The Cloud are decentralized. I’m not sure how this got broken, but a few powerful companies seem to be running with it.

The bar for grasping decentralization fatally flexible and bends very low.

As in "If you can't immediately name the individual who has the majority of leverage over the operation of X, then X is decentralized" low.

It's little more than an incantation at this point; the only proven implementation is as a sort of verbal ink blot test for identifying marks.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#116

Post by leesalminen »

hinkley wrote: post #86
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think a Facebook currency is not going to charge fees and upsell you left, right and centre the first moment they think they can get away with it? That's as well as targeting advertising and selling data of your spending patterns.

Pretty much my feeling. I can never tell when discussing matters like this if the other party is expressing legitimate concerns poorly considered, or if I’m witnessing some astroturfing campaign. JBoss was the first astroturfing campaign I learned about (and if you’re reading this, Marc, fuck you. Yeah people still remember.) I know these sorts of things have been going on forever but it feels like it’s getting worse…

GP is the founder of parse, acquired by Facebook. I’d imagine he has a nice chunk of FB stock :).

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#117

Post by FillardMillmore »

twright wrote: post #69

I wonder what would have happened if Facebook had simply announced Libra and released it a week later. Would the legislative backlash have been stronger? Or would the quick release bring to light the (always preached about but not always demonstrable) advantages of cryptocurrencies. I'm not (yet) doubting that Libra will eventually be released, but I can see it being shutdown before or sometime after release.

I think the legislative backlash would've been much stronger, and I have nothing to back this up so take it with a grain of salt - just my opinion.

Considering the many negative press stories about Facebook concerning things like privacy rights, I don't think Facebook would take a risk like that to begin with, but if they did, the US government would likely want to make an example out of them to deter future companies eager to act first and ask for permission later. Especially when it comes to something like this that could very well disrupt global currencies. There would be many ensuing battles of litigation and I would imagine the cost for Facebook, if they truly held steadfast in support of Libra, would be quite tremendous.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#118

Post by rimliu »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #64

I honestly don't see how to reconcile two desirable aspects of digital currency - Frictionless, fee-less digital transfer of a medium of value. To be able to transfer money natively over the internet. - To keep it secure for 7 billion people - reversible, auditable etc - the benefits we have of a curated financial system. I am sure there are lots of reading on this available - but those two do seem incompatible

I have both with my bank.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#119

Post by AlEinstein »

capocannoniere wrote: post #97

I'd argue the outcome of this will be that Facebook will launch their own payments infrastructure on top of WhatsApp. There was no need for crypto or a Libra association to begin with. According to the leaked Facebook all-hands audio, Facebook is already planning to launch payments in Mexico by end of 2019 ( https://qz.com/1719731/zuckerberg-confirms-facebook-payment-... ). I wouldn't be surprised if this goes extrem…

Exactly this. Facebook will definitely move forward with some kind of payment system. Libra would have been fantastic for them if it had worked out but it was never their only option. They won't give up on Libra yet though.

Re: Visa, Mastercard, Stripe, and eBay exit Facebook’s Libra project

#120

Post by kebman »

mamon wrote: post #63
pat87 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin can be killed by means other than technological. For example it can be outlawed. Sure, people would still be able to use it, but they would be breaking the law and that would deter many, possibly enough to kill it outright.

Bitcoin does not need to be killed because it’s dead already: proved to be useless for all practical purposes, now used mostly for money laundering or other criminal activities

That's an interesting claim, all the time regular banknotes and coins offer way better alternatives for doing just that (e.g. money laundering and black market transactions), due to their much better relative untraceability as compared to just about all cryptocurrencies, and even so-called privacy coins.

The only thing cryptocurrency has clearly got going for it, is in relative better ease of use, and better security, as compared to coins and banknotes, especially when it comes to international transactions.

It's troublesome to move a literal ton of cash from A to B, while moving a virtual ton of cryptocurrency isn't. The cost and risk of moving said ton of cash from A to B, is also staggering compared to the relative security and ease of movement offered by cryptocurrencies.

Best of all, cryptocurrency just about removes the need to have a bank as a third party when both storing and moving your valuables. Thus it's a much bigger problem for banks, than governments. Remember, taxation still existed in a time when no valuables were traceable. So that fact that some cryptocurrencies are claimed to be untracable, doesn't really matter much to the state.

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