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System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

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Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#251

Post by pgeorgi »

tpearson-raptor wrote: post #189
floatboth wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> requires some care when selecting your gear Doesn't that mostly boil down to "avoid anything newer than Ivy Bridge/Bulldozer"? > high performance memory […] controller function blocks There are DDR4 controllers with FOSS training code out there :) https://github.com/MarvellEmbeddedProcessors/mv-ddr-marvell/...

Here's POWER's training code for DDR4: https://git.raptorcs.com/git/talos-hostboot/tree/src/import/... pgeorgi has a valid point in that if you go for the cheapest off the shelf building block type DDR4 solution for your silicon design (won't name names here, but it's a widely known vendor in the silicon block space), those controllers come with mandated binary-only firmware. IBM (and apparently Marvell?) both didn't…

That cheapest COTS block also has the advantage of being battle tested by the big customer base.

Since you presumably have pretty good contacts into IBM: ever asked if they'd consider pooling resources with other vendors around their interconnects in an open forum?

Not sure if DDR4 (or USB, or even PCIe 4.0) silicon is a huge differentiator for them, and those protocols all thrive on interoperability: no need for IBM (or Marvell, for example) to figure out all the issues with real world peripherals on their own.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#252

Post by pgeorgi »

tpearson-raptor wrote: post #229
jakeogh wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep it's totally the form factor. I looked at it again when I found that NXP system (thanks to #olimex:)... half considered asking about getting rid of the ram slots, ATX connector, PCI's and various tower plugs and adding the ability to run 4+ drives while still fitting it in a laptop-ish case. Also as far as I can tell, you dont provide the design files... yet:) I'm throughly excited about your systems, but I dont…

Yep, I figured as much. We'd love to do a laptop, we're literally just stalled on the GPU. This is where a consortium of ODMs and OEMs could possibly effect change, the combined buying power is probably enough to get custom GPU silicon sans-DRM and locking created. Only question is, does enough willpower exist from the other ostensibly open vendors at this time to actually work toward that goal with us? ;)

Provide a path to a $1300 laptop that is POWER based (and not crippled "slow 1 core SMT1" stuff from IBM's dead-bin) and you might entice System76 and Purism.

Your products target "Freedom, no matter the costs" while their products aim for "better than what the market has right now, at consumer friendly price points".

Both are important: they demonstrate that there's mass market appeal, you demonstrate that there's an achievable ultimate goal.

If you want to join forces, there needs to be a common story that works for both. Right now, their story isn't sufficiently Free-with-capital-F for you and your story isn't sufficiently consumer-compatible for them.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#253

Post by OJFord »

Is the value in the custom distro that's well tested with the shipped hardware, do we think? i.e. If I want a laptop to put on, might I as well have a ThinkPad/Dell XPS/Purism Librem?

I just don't particularly like the look of the chassis, and I'm sure there's nowhere I can see them in person to check. It's a shame that Macbooks essentially don't work with Linux any more: https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux (yes there are workarounds and maybe it doesn't all matter - but needing a WiFi dongle is a bit of show stopper).

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#254

Post by ProAm »

dhanvanthri wrote: post #204

These computers runs blobs in the firmware and are not fully open source. I understand that modern users want modern performance, and that there is only a niche market for a librebooted computer (mostly due to performance), and as a company, it's systems76's responsibility to meet the market. But solutions exist, and if you are trying to market an open source computer, then give me an open source computer. What I hat…

> but they are literally using this forum as a marketing platform

Almost every post on HN is for marketing. The net positive System76 is doing outweighs the negatives we have in today's software world. Be happy it's not BIOS-as-a-service that requires a subscription and is funded by a VC.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#255

Post by FunnyLookinHat »

rhizome wrote: post #192
jackpot51 wrote: post #3

I am Jeremy Soller, Principal Engineer at System76. Let me know if you have any questions. The source for this can be found here: https://github.com/system76/firmware-open There are instructions there for building and testing the firmware in QEMU, you do not need to have our hardware to try it out.

OT, but I would love a tenkeyless keyboard option for the larger models.

Same here :)

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#256

Post by lucb1e »

amiga-workbench wrote: post #242
lucb1e wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why we need another competing standard for such a small difference. Given how small the difference is, I'm in favor for whichever one is more common to avoid black bars below media or other ill-fitting content. As far as I can tell, 16:9 is much more common so I am happy to stick with that on any device and resolution.

Because I want my computer to be optimised for productivity, not watching YouTube.

An extra few percent is not going to help significantly, but it will create a noticeable box around media. So a small upside with a (for you) just as small downside.

If we want taller screens, then we should use 16:12 or so. If 16:10 is the perfect ratio and 16:9 is just off, then I honestly don't think it can be bad enough to justify the cost of change, though I am of course willing to be convinced by research.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#257

Post by amiga-workbench »

lucb1e wrote: post #256
amiga-workbench wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I want my computer to be optimised for productivity, not watching YouTube.

An extra few percent is not going to help significantly, but it will create a noticeable box around media. So a small upside with a (for you) just as small downside. If we want taller screens, then we should use 16:12 or so. If 16:10 is the perfect ratio and 16:9 is just off, then I honestly don't think it can be bad enough to justify the cost of change, though I am of course willing to be convinced by research.

I've no problem with that, I still use 3 5:4 panels at the office. But so far 16:10 was the best that you can get for desktop machines at the very least.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#258

Post by throwaway2048 »

tpearson-raptor wrote: post #201
AtlasBarfed wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are ISAs patented or copyrighted?

IANAL, but this is what I've been told: Both. Copyright applies to some aspects, patents to others, and then you also get into trademark rights. With the US having embraced effectively permanent copyright, ISAs will not be freely able to be implemented unless their owner expressly allows it (my understanding is that the Oracle vs. Google case solidified this thinking). Fundamentally, that means you get to pick from R…

The Oracle vs Google case was not precedent setting, it was a patent court deciding the copyright applied, that is not something that causes a precedent to be set.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#260

Post by derefr »

freeflight wrote: post #244
derefr wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to put out more FLOPs at max pinned wattage, doesn’t imply that you’ll take in fewer watts at idle. Power consumption isn’t linear.

I'm not talking about "more FLOPs at max pinned wattage", that would be Intel. I'm talking about efficiency as in performance delivered per watt used and on that metric Ryzen has Intel beat on desktop. So it stands to reason those new Ryzen chips would also perform very well in laptops. [0] https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-9_3900x-vs-in...

No, you’re misreading what I said. My point was that the metric AMD has Intel beat in is “performance per watt under load”. With Ryzen, each watt you spend will get you more FLOPs than the same marginal watt will get you on an Intel chip. It’s like Ryzen is a car with more torque, that can turn each cc of gasoline burned into more force, and so get you further down the road. But that doesn’t mean that Ryzen idles as low as an Intel chip; i.e. that the Ryzen car would end up burning less gasoline over an hour of city driving.

Ryzen can be more power-efficient in e.g. a server (constant near-100% load profile) while also being less power-efficient in a laptop (constant near-idle load profile.) People who talk about the Ryzen power efficiency numbers are only talking about how it performs in the server-like test context (or, often, a gaming context, where the measurement they’re using is just “what sort of PSU do you need to power this thing at max load.”) As is evidenced by sibling posts in this thread, Ryzen doesn’t fare so well in the laptop-like test context in practice.

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