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Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

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Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#311

Post by rndgermandude »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #137
policeanman wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This app specifically lists where the police are. Since when is that a crime? When news reporters cover a protest in US and show live where the police is, are they committing a crime?

It’s a crime if it’s being used to physically attack the cop.

No, listing where the police are is not a crime. Attacking the police is a crime. Inciting to attack the police is probably a crime too in most jurisdictions around the world. Neither the app nor the app makers attacked police nor endorsed let alone incited attacking the police.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#312

Post by rndgermandude »

sushicat wrote: post #267
baddox wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention that laws are different in different countries.

This is a fair point. Laws are different, so procedures can be different. Not to mention the city’s situation is critical - protests - violence from both side. Following US procedures in HK does not make sense. Companies always obey local laws but not laws in another country.

That's why I said Tim Cook should actually spell out what local Hong Kong laws were violated, if any. There actually could be some, but so far I did not see anybody actually pointing out any such laws, neither the Hong Kong government, nor the myriad of journalists covering the story about the app, nor Apple which surely had their in-house counsel and maybe evn external counsel look into this matter.

After that, the next question is if Apple, which even kinda positions itself as the new "Don't be evil" company including fighting some governments e.g. when they get told to subvert their own security tech, should side with such draconian laws or with the app makers.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#313

Post by coldtea »

dannyr wrote: post #291
coldtea wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple caved under pressure from China. The explanation Cook gave is not just an embarrassment, it calls into question the veracity of all of his other statements. What veracity? He is a businessman in a trillion dollar company. He says what pleases the market -- the domestic and the foreign one, not his personal beliefs... The first priority is always profits or growth. If one sincerely cared for the environment fo…

Part of Apple's image that earned it loyal customers is that they care more about their customers than most other companies. Apple doesn't sell your data, it protects your privacy, will fight government agencies asking for user's data, etc.

>Part of Apple's image that earned it loyal customers is that they care more about their customers than most other companies.

>Apple doesn't sell your data, it protects your privacy, will fight government agencies asking for user's data, etc.*

That's a quite recent thing, say starting around 2015 or so, as a differentiating branding to Google, Amazon, and Facebook. They might mention it here and there, but they didn't tout it all the time before, and almost none before 2012 with Jobs. And Apple had already had its huge rise by that point. It's not like the "privacy conscious" are a large enough market to make for the later growth. In fact, if anything, the privacy conscious would have moved to Apple first.

Plus, Apple is not "pro privacy" because it's some political champion of privacy, but simply because it's business model (hardware, software, services tied to them) doesn't need selling ads and user data. Whereas Facebook's and Google's whole business model revolves around turning user info to targeted ads...

Apple's image was "the computer for the rest of us", "empowering people", etc. Even the 1984 ad was about corporate sameness and drudgery of then computing, not about some anti-government rebellion.

Apple was never in politics or taking some stance to world affairs (besides "Against AIDs" etc), and before Cook came out (and the cultural/marketing climate was friendly to jumping on the bandwagon), they'd never cared for the LGBT movement either.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#314

Post by 66438throwaway »

tyfon wrote: post #240
ottolin wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it depends on your iCloud account location instead of where you are.

Does that mean that a Chinese citizen can register their account in the US or buy a US account and avoid having their data handed to the Chinese government? I personally think it's a bit more complicated than that.

It would be fascinating if that’s the situation.

Would that also mean an individual wanting to avoid five eyes surveillance can register their account in China?

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#316

Post by the_other »

tibbydudeza wrote: post #300

"You are holding the phone wrong" ... typical Apple BS which people don't call them out on because they well Apple.

Lots of people call Apple out on all sorts of issues, several times a week. Figuratively "no one" believed "You're holding it wrong".

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#317

Post by sterlind »

mey wrote: post #221
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting. Any additional info? Info that is maybe not public?

AWS is very upfront about AWS China. See https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/global-infrastructure/regio... and click AWS China Regions on the left side. I would be asking AWS about the future of AWS Hong Kong which has historically has had special freedoms from China. See current events for more on that. Typical issue is the ICP License ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICP_license ), which is why Western companies set u…

For now, like you say. If China decides to make one country one system, it's curtains for all the Western infrastructure and instances located there. Depending on how it goes down, it could be a big security/confidentiality issue for the data located or flowing through there.

I'm hopeful China would have a lot to lose by pulling the plug, since Hong Kong is a valuable interface to the West, but it might happen sooner or later with how unstable geopolitics is becoming.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#318

Post by _-___________-_ »

wodenokoto wrote: post #305
president wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should users believe that (closed source) iMessage encryption is free from backdoors when we know that Cook will dance around sensitive truths? At least in China, you can probably assume iMessage is back-doored given that iCloud content in mainland China is operated by a Chinese internet company. Apple quietly posted this last week on their support page: "iCloud services in China mainland are now operated by Ch…

> "iCloud services and all the data you store with iCloud, including photos, videos, documents, and backups, will be subject to the new terms and conditions of iCloud operated by GCBD." How do I know if my data is on the Chinese iCloud? I've been to China once and connected to iCloud.

My understanding is that it's based on the region setting of your phone, but I'd be happy to be corrected.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#319

Post by idlewords »

idlewords wrote: post #296
anonimouse1234a wrote: post #227

Thor’s way account for obvious reasons. I am an Apple employee (Cupertino) and I did not receive this email. It also reads different than other Tim emails, which never mention specific things such as credible reports and the language seems off. I also did not here any colleagues mention such an email, and usually it pops up for everyone at the same time and it becomes a topic. This email pastebin is a fake

I was told by multiple Apple employees that it is genuine. Check your spam folder.

Gruber confirms it's real. https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/10/10/cook-hkmap-live...

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#320

Post by _-___________-_ »

millstone wrote: post #147
untog wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Apple capitulates to every demand the Chinese government makes then perhaps there isn’t much of a difference.

Right. But of course the Chinese government has asked Apple for a backdoor, and (to our knowledge) Apple has not provided that. So long as that's true, an iPhone really is one of the most secure option for Chinese residents.

Apple is open about the fact that their cloud services are operated by a Chinese company in China. No Chinese company has the option of refusing government demands for access to information. Therefore, at least the cloud services should be considered backdoored.
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