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Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

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Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#181

Post by sneak »

millstone wrote: post #143
SiVal wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No point in debating the details of which tech is more secure or what is encrypted or adulterated or whatever. Apple has made it clear that they will make sure the Chinese gov't gets what it wants. Even in a supposedly "autonomous" Hong Kong, China complains and Apple submits--flags, apps, speech, whatever. No need to even go to court, and certainly no point. So Apple has made it clear that if China wants something,…

It's not "whatever." Apple has removed emoji and an app; they don't provide the government with backdoors or biometric data. There really is a line.

iCloud is backdoored at the server for all users in China.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#182

Post by flukus »

ordinaryradical wrote: post #4

This is a huge stain on the company, the brand, and Cook’s leadership. It’s not just censorship—it’s active cooperation with an authoritarian power under the fig leaf of TOS violations. Truly astonishing.

And the people who purchase apple products.

They gave Apple this level of control in the first place.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#183

Post by PavlovsCat »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #121
protomyth wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can flag articles.

If you flag on-topic articles your flagging privileges can be revoked.

Seeing how dang danced around user flags here, and outright doesn't see anything unusual about how stories are sunk, I doubt that is done: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21195297

When was the last time you saw mods mention that flagging privileges of some users have been suspended? For me it was around the Snowden revelations, when there were a lot of articles about that, a lot of complaints about there being too many articles, and apparently abuse of the flagging feature.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#184

Post by epmaybe »

asdf333 wrote: post #120
reaperducer wrote: post #17

For those who want to read the e-mail: https://pastebin.com/dFyftCuZ As for me, I sold my Apple stock yesterday. Tim won't miss my $10k. But I won't miss him when I am able to move to a better platform.

yeah...not sure i can ditch my macbook pro yet but next phone is not going to be iphone anymore...

why not? Short of developing for iPhone, iPad, or macOS, I don't think they bring anything new to the table that minor inconveniences on a Windows or Linux platform wouldn't solve.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#185

Post by syshum »

baddox wrote: post #9

Can I play devil's advocate for just a moment? Gruber asks for evidence. His only complaints seems to be the lack of evidence and a question of whether the app violates local (Hong Kong) law. Cook's memo directly addresses both of those issues: > However, over the past several days we received credible information, from the Hong Kong Cybersecurity and Technology Crime Bureau, as well as from users in Hong Kong, that…

>>Can I play devil's advocate for just a moment?

Makes me sad we have lost soo much respect for liberty that people feel compelled to play "devil's advocate" in favor of a totalitarian regime.

I think it is clear that any "evidence" that has come from " Hong Kong Cybersecurity and Technology Crime Bureau" should be rejected out right and not trusted at all

Further the fact that the app may have broken "local laws" should also have no impact at all on the discussion, we are talking about a Totalitarian regime with countless Human Rights violations, their local laws are objectively at odds with what anyone should consider just or proper

So it comes down "Does this app violate Apple Policies", given that apple like most companies write the rules so at any time anything can be a violation at their sole discretion then technically yes, but so could any app at any time.

At the end of the day allow me to Translate Apple's Statement SouthPark Style

"Like the NBA, Blizzard, and countless other companies, we welcome the Chinese censors into our homes and into our hearts. We too love money more than freedom. Long Live the communist party of China"

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#186

Post by ottolin »

hamandcheese wrote: post #174
president wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should users believe that (closed source) iMessage encryption is free from backdoors when we know that Cook will dance around sensitive truths? At least in China, you can probably assume iMessage is back-doored given that iCloud content in mainland China is operated by a Chinese internet company. Apple quietly posted this last week on their support page: "iCloud services in China mainland are now operated by Ch…

If I travel to China does that mean my iCloud data will sync to Chinese iCloud?

No, it depends on your iCloud account location instead of where you are.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#187

Post by lonelappde »

artfulhippo wrote: post #2

Apple caved under pressure from China. The explanation Cook gave is not just an embarrassment, it calls into question the veracity of all of his other statements. Why should users believe that (closed source) iMessage encryption is free from backdoors when we know that Cook will dance around sensitive truths? And why should the US government be satisfied with a fully encrypted iMessage given that Apple will cave to d…

> And why should the US government be satisfied with a fully encrypted iMessage given that Apple will cave to demands given enough pressure?

Unlike China, the US is still governed by mostly democratic laws and a Constitution, and law enforcement and politicians can't just wish new laws into effect.

As Penn Jillette says, "The Chinese Bill of Rights isn't worth the paper it isn't written on."

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#188

Post by dilippkumar »

artfulhippo wrote: post #2

Apple caved under pressure from China. The explanation Cook gave is not just an embarrassment, it calls into question the veracity of all of his other statements. Why should users believe that (closed source) iMessage encryption is free from backdoors when we know that Cook will dance around sensitive truths? And why should the US government be satisfied with a fully encrypted iMessage given that Apple will cave to d…

Your comment has made a really really deep impression on me. For the past several years, I’ve been a hardcore Apple loyalist only for their stance on privacy and security.

It’s time to stop being deluded. I’m going to stop paying premium for apple and assume all my devices are hostile by default.

What the actual fuck Apple.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#189

Post by karmakaze »

mistersquid wrote: post #29
artfulhippo wrote: post #2

Apple caved under pressure from China. The explanation Cook gave is not just an embarrassment, it calls into question the veracity of all of his other statements. Why should users believe that (closed source) iMessage encryption is free from backdoors when we know that Cook will dance around sensitive truths? And why should the US government be satisfied with a fully encrypted iMessage given that Apple will cave to d…

I agree that Apple's stated rationale for removing the HKmap.live app is embarrassing and the removal is a capitulation to China's government. The reasons China's government has decried the app are bogus, but those false reports and allegations do not originate with Apple. However, Apple appears to be accepting those reasons at face value and probably because Apple is kowtowing. Regarding whether iMessage is free fro…

OT: Appropriately TIL kowtow is a word that came from China

early 19th century: from Chinese kētóu, from kē ‘knock’ + tóu ‘head’.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#190

Post by infamia »

baddox wrote: post #45
dwild wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> His only complaints seems to be the lack of evidence That's seriously disingenuous. His complaints is about how what Tim wrote doesn't make any sense, not about evidence. He only ask for evidence because he is logical, he knows that he may have not thought of everything and could be potentially wrong. > The first allegation is that “the app was being used maliciously to target individual officers for violence”. Thi…

I thought I provided a reasonable interpretation of Cook's comments in my previous comment, when I said "It seems like everyone agrees that this app was useful for organizing Hong Kong protests, and that some Hong Kong protesters have committed violence and broken local laws." Of course the app doesn't show individual officers, but I don't think it's reasonable to interpret Cook's memo as claiming that the app litera…

> Of course the app doesn't show individual officers, but I don't think it's reasonable to interpret Cook's memo as claiming that the app literally showed the location of individual officers.

I'm not certain how else to read the passage below other than Cook claiming protestors used it to target individual officers somehow.

"However, over the past several days we received credible information, from the Hong Kong Cybersecurity and Technology Crime Bureau, as well as from users in Hong Kong, that the app was being used maliciously to target individual officers for violence" -Tim Cook

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