Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident • Hacker News Board

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#401

Post by TheAceOfHearts » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 1:03 PM UTC

patmcc wrote: post #279

greggman2 wrote: post #78

I'm mixed on this. I'm 100% for Chung “Blitzchung” Ng Wai to express his support for Hong Kong. I'm not so sure it's okay for him to do it on Blizzard's show/event. 27 years ago Sinead O'Connor ripped up a picture of the Pope on Saturday Night Live when it was broadcast live. She's was arguably right to critize the Pope but was she right to do it from Saturday Night Live's Live broadcast? IIRC because of that inciden…

>>>I'm not so sure it's okay for him to do it on Blizzard's show/event. >>>...but was she right to do it from Saturday Night Live's Live broadcast? If SNL wants to not invite O'Connor back, or cut her from the rest of the show, or yank her off stage, yep it's their show, fair enough. Same with blizzard - they can stop the interview and tell him he doesn't get to say what he wants on their show. I wouldn't exactly be…

Taking his winnings is outright evil, and I don't think he should've been banned either.

I'd like to play Devil's advocate with your argument, if you'd be interested and willing. Couldn't one say the same thing about Blizzard: "it's their game/tournament, their rules"? They banned him from participating in Hearthstone esports for 1 year. Is the primary distinction that O'Connor doesn't depend on SNL for her livelihood? Would the argument hold if O'Connor were employed by SNL?

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#402

Post by mdpopescu » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 1:51 PM UTC

ericd wrote: post #299

mdpopescu wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same thing happens with the US: despite the problems that (most of) the rest of the world has with its government, the US citizens are very much supportive of their government. To paraphrase your last statement, as long as the US can manage to not destroy their economy completely, the US public will by and large support the government.

I would say that most Americans are actually very angry about the US government.

Not in my experience.

Most Americans are angry about the president or some senator. Medicare? FBI? The US Navy / Air Force / Army? The police? Most Americans love those. (When did you last see a group of people asking for the disbanding of the FBI? Heck, for the disbanding of the IRS even.)

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#403

Post by bzbarsky » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:31 PM UTC

srajabi wrote: post #288

Dumblydorr wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their economy is also massively indebted, they got hooked on debt to a degree many here would consider reckless. They've wasted a tremendous amount of money on useless construction, which may be one downfall of a planned economy.

I was intrigued by your comment, so I went looking around: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_... It looks like their debt is only 15% of their GDP? I've heard the China Debt thing before and I don't understand it. Could you explain what you mean?

I'm by no means an expert, but my understanding is that China's debt problem is not external debt, but internal debt. To put what the more negative takes are saying in US-related terms it's as if the mortgage-lending practices of the mid-2000s were done on a much larger scale (involving not just housing loans but almost everything funded by borrowing, including industry, infrastructure, etc) and for a much longer time.

As a result, there are lots of loans on the books that will never be paid off as things stand, and unlike the US there is no mechanism in the financial system to acknowledge any of that on a gradual basis (loan writedowns, etc), so the loans keep being rolled over instead.

At some point, reality will need to be faced, at which point there will be either massive financial system issues, much worse than what the US had going on in 2008, or huge government bailouts. And in the latter case, that implies even more financial repression or taxation, or both, than is already going on, with resulting decreases in economic well-being for urban areas in China, which is the thing that _really_ worries the CCP.

If the economy grows faster than the "bad loan" burden, then this problem is basically temporary, and rolling the loans over until the economy has grown enough to just deal with the issue is the right strategy. It's hard to come by plausibly correct (or even unbiased) estimates of either economic growth or the size of the "bad loan" burden, but almost all the estimates I've seen seem to agree that for a long time the "bad loan" burden was growing faster than the economy. Whether that's still the case, I don't know.

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#404

Post by SomeOldThrow » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:32 PM UTC

jknoepfler wrote: post #102

intopieces wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>are being much more effective Absolutely. They’re beating us at our own game and revealing that American values were never freedom and democracy - those are just ways we think are good to make money. If a better system comes along we’re the first to jump on it.

This is laughably false. The press in the United States is and remains free to publish (virtually) whatever it wants about federal, state, and local government. We're free even to suggest that the electoral college is a terrible way to implement democratic election of representatives, to suggest that the current voting system undermines the legitimacy of the government, to propose and debate alternatives in the open…

> The press in the United States is and remains free to publish (virtually) whatever it wants about federal, state, and local government.

This doesn’t mean much if they don’t use this power and instead publish random bullshit. The western way has never been censorship, it’s been straight up lying.

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#405

Post by SomeOldThrow » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:35 PM UTC

christophilus wrote: post #113

intopieces wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>are being much more effective Absolutely. They’re beating us at our own game and revealing that American values were never freedom and democracy - those are just ways we think are good to make money. If a better system comes along we’re the first to jump on it.

> revealing that American values were never freedom and democracy Dunno about you, but I draw the opposite conclusion. The reaction so far has made it clear that a lot of Americans value freedom and democracy, and that they see these corporate actions as unacceptable.

The media is doing all the reacting. Where are you getting this pulse from?

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#406

Post by SomeOldThrow » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:37 PM UTC

jknoepfler wrote: post #85

SomeOldThrow wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The west employs this tactic too but calls it a sanction or embargo.

No, it doesn't. Let's take an actual country rather than something vacuous like "The West". To start a company in the United States (for example), you do not need "an American business partner" controlled by the federal government of the United States. The fate of your company is not tied 100% to the approval or disapproval of that business partner's actions, which in the case of China are vigorously and actively pol…

> Furthermore the editor of the Wall Street Journal who published your editorial might suffer some backlash for the utterly weird thing they chose to publish, but they would not be fined or imprisoned or tortured or executed by any state-run apparatus (as they would in China).

I recommend reading manufacturing consent. Censorship is entirely unnecessary and you hit on the core social mechanism there.

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#407

Post by baby » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:48 PM UTC

jammygit wrote: post #378

baby wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

French people are outraged too.

What do you mean? Lots of social media activity?

(I’m French)

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#408

Post by silexia » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 8:49 PM UTC

Guph wrote: post #386

m-p-3 wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, they went nuclear without anticipating the world to fire back.

they went nuclear not caring about anything but keeping china's totalitarian government happy. I hope this really hurts blizzard. To many people value playing the game than protecting rights, let alone rights of other people.

We should all completely boycott Blizzard and never purchase games from it again. Same thing with the NBA. In the long run, we need to fight back in China itself against the dictatorship.

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#409

Post by jessaustin » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 5:12 AM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #151

jessaustin wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this "outrage machine" affect the actions of the Chinese government? If people get outraged enough, will they vote against the communist party?

No, because the government generally puts on a big show to satisfy the outrage machines if the machines red line on a given subject for too long. Nothing and no one is safe. The outrage machines demand blood, then just like in the US, those in power will give the outrage machines blood. They will jail, and have even been known to execute, any political or business leader if an "outrage machine" revs about the guy for…

It doesn't seem plausible that Xi is worried about the opinions of neckbeards. It may suit his purposes to pretend that to be the case, but they certainly have enough control over the infrastructure to silence any counterproductive "outrage". As in USA, TPTB like to pretend that there are ways for the hoi polloi to determine national priorities.

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#410

Post by rahidz » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 8:39 AM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #382

jrockway wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was my thought yesterday when I saw one post on Reddit. But I think things are different this time. Every post to every Blizzard-related subreddit is related to this event. One of the top posts on /r/all is about using an Overwatch character to represent the Hong Kong protests, and it's gaining traction. The NYT and WSJ have articles about the situation. Congresspeople are making statements about it. Streamers t…

Were you around for Occupy Wall Street? I am for the cause in general. But activists need to figure out a proper strategy. Long story short: you need to demand congressional action, and lead an actual political change. That includes a plan to vote come next year (who to vote for, who to support, etc. etc.). Anything less will be largely ignored, just like Occupy Wall Street.

I disagree that Occupy Wall Street was a complete failure; it brought "1%" into the popular lingo and with that shaped countless people's ideas on society and class.