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Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

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Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#191

Post by PavlovsCat »

rdiddly wrote: post #111
stupidcar wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the complaint is not that Cook is not providing direct evidence, and it is a complete misrepresentation to suggest so. It makes your protestations of disinterest rather suspect, as those of supposed "devil's advocates" so often seem to be. The complaint is that Cook's claims are extraordinary and seemingly impossible on their face because of the fundamental nature of the app in question. Its purpose is to show th…

Not the same commenter, but it seems like the lengthy protestations of disinterest are a reaction to the prevailing online climate of exactly the kind of paranoid hysteria embodied in, for example, the assertion that anyone playing devil's advocate is probably on the devil's side so to speak. Being able to hold and consider multiple contrary or incompatible positions simultaneously is in fact a sign of a fairly sophi…

Even the devil's advocate [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_advocate ] is supposed to cite facts and reason properly -- not claim a falsehood in support of the devil, which misrepresenting the article is.

You can't just precede anything with "just playing devil's advocate for a moment" and make it immune from scrutiny, that's the intellectual equivalent of "just a prank". From the WP article, emphasis mine:

> explore the thought further using a valid reasoning

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#192

Post by dilippkumar »

mistersquid wrote: post #29
artfulhippo wrote: post #2

Apple caved under pressure from China. The explanation Cook gave is not just an embarrassment, it calls into question the veracity of all of his other statements. Why should users believe that (closed source) iMessage encryption is free from backdoors when we know that Cook will dance around sensitive truths? And why should the US government be satisfied with a fully encrypted iMessage given that Apple will cave to d…

I agree that Apple's stated rationale for removing the HKmap.live app is embarrassing and the removal is a capitulation to China's government. The reasons China's government has decried the app are bogus, but those false reports and allegations do not originate with Apple. However, Apple appears to be accepting those reasons at face value and probably because Apple is kowtowing. Regarding whether iMessage is free fro…

> However, Apple has not to date lied about what they are doing and we do not yet have a reason to doubt their representations about the security of their encryption.

Today, they showed that they are willing to lie under sufficient influence.

This sole data point is sufficient to tarnish what was assumed to be a perfect record.

There is no such thing as 99.999% integrity. Apple either has 100% integrity or is inviting you to play russian roulette with it’s products and services.

We might have already rolled the dice enough times - 1.4e9 active devices trusting apple about 10 times a day for 282 days this year = 3.948 trillion rolls of the dice. A 0.001% chance of betrayal by Apple is 39.4 million betrayals this year (approximately the population of Canada)

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#194

Post by dannyw »

panda88888 wrote: post #144

I am not surprised by this. I always thought Tim Cook talks a good talk, but fails to walk the walk when the stakes at hand is real. He’s fine with standing up to the CIA/FBI because he knows it’s good PR for business and the US government cannot do anything without a lengthy court fight that is mostly fair. Same with other US domestic issues such as DACA, sane sex marriage, etc. But when it comes to the PRC governme…

If you compromise, at least be frank about it.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#195

Post by dannyw »

bgee wrote: post #68
capableweb wrote: post #34

It's already known that iCloud in China is operated by a state-owned telecom (GCBD) see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21217920 so they could use the data to track the protestors. And iPhone usages is comparatively small according to https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/china (Android 79% and iPhone 20%) Then https://hkmap.live/ is available as a website. So why the outcry about this? In the end, f…

> iCloud in China is operated by a state-owned telecom ... so they could use the data to track the protestors. Please stop spreading lies unless you have evidence to back up your claim. From [0]: "Apple has never made user data, whether stored on the iPhone or in iCloud, more technologically accessible to any country's government." Disclaimer: mainlander here. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21209190

Apple may have not, GCBD have.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#196

Post by CogitoCogito »

millstone wrote: post #152
curt15 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Permanent removal from China would probably be worse for freedom in China over 20 years How does Apple advance freedom in China?

Spyware is routinely found preinstalled on Chinese branded phones, and Chinese border guards will install spyware on tourists' Android phones. iPhone users are much better protected from this stuff. 1: https://www.cyberscoop.com/android-malware-china-huawei-zte-... 2: https://9to5mac.com/2019/07/03/spyware/

Spyware is also found in iOS in China via iMessage so what’s your point?

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#197

Post by lern_too_spel »

panda88888 wrote: post #144

I am not surprised by this. I always thought Tim Cook talks a good talk, but fails to walk the walk when the stakes at hand is real. He’s fine with standing up to the CIA/FBI because he knows it’s good PR for business and the US government cannot do anything without a lengthy court fight that is mostly fair. Same with other US domestic issues such as DACA, sane sex marriage, etc. But when it comes to the PRC governme…

When did he stand up to the CIA? As far as standing up to the FBI, the impetus behind that was to cover up another lie. Apple had told customers "it's not technically feasible" for Apple to respond to data requests and got a mountain of free press for it. The FBI showed a method by which Apple could obtain the encrypted data on those devices. Soon after, that claim disappeared from Apple's "Privacy" marketing page. https://gizmodo.com/apple-wont-turn-over-your-phones-data-to...

Complying with the data request would have given users who had their data obtained standing to sue Apple, so Apple's willingness to litigate the issue went so far as the cost of the lawsuits it wanted to avoid. The FBI dropped the case not because it didn't think it could win but because it could access the data more quickly using another vendor's data extraction service.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#198

Post by solidsnack9000 »

panda88888 wrote: post #144

I am not surprised by this. I always thought Tim Cook talks a good talk, but fails to walk the walk when the stakes at hand is real. He’s fine with standing up to the CIA/FBI because he knows it’s good PR for business and the US government cannot do anything without a lengthy court fight that is mostly fair. Same with other US domestic issues such as DACA, sane sex marriage, etc. But when it comes to the PRC governme…

If the alternative were to lose manufacturing capacity, it wouldn’t be “...compromising immediately when $$$ is at stake.”. What’s at stake then is the future of the company — everyone’s jobs, industries that have come to rely on Macs, the consumers that have come to rely on iPhones. Just folding up and losing the $$$ isn’t the path of courage here.
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