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Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

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Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#151

Post by jakelazaroff »

millstone wrote: post #143
SiVal wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No point in debating the details of which tech is more secure or what is encrypted or adulterated or whatever. Apple has made it clear that they will make sure the Chinese gov't gets what it wants. Even in a supposedly "autonomous" Hong Kong, China complains and Apple submits--flags, apps, speech, whatever. No need to even go to court, and certainly no point. So Apple has made it clear that if China wants something,…

It's not "whatever." Apple has removed emoji and an app; they don't provide the government with backdoors or biometric data. There really is a line.

Why do you think there's a line? What is that based on?

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#152

Post by millstone »

curt15 wrote: post #57
Aloha wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US isn't a closed market and can't effectively eject Apple from the market. While I disagree with the choice Apple made, it's a very rational one. Permanent removal from China would probably be worse for freedom in China over 20 years, and massively worse for Apple in the short term. No company should be expected to back or foment a revolution somewhere, from my perspective they're looking out for their own beet…

>Permanent removal from China would probably be worse for freedom in China over 20 years How does Apple advance freedom in China?

Spyware is routinely found preinstalled on Chinese branded phones, and Chinese border guards will install spyware on tourists' Android phones. iPhone users are much better protected from this stuff.

1: https://www.cyberscoop.com/android-malware-china-huawei-zte-...

2: https://9to5mac.com/2019/07/03/spyware/

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#153

Post by cycrutchfield »

dirtyid wrote: post #132
cycrutchfield wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If China had an app that allowed US alt-right or antifa to target PoC/whatever antifa equivalent owned stores and attack the police, it would be pulled in a heart beat. If you’re going to end with this sort of false equivalence, it kind of colors the rest of your argument and makes me wonder if you are being disingenuous here. I further note that you make a lot of assertions with no facts to substantiate them, and r…

It's only false equivalence to those zero familiarly of HKer/Mainlander dynamic. Which is the majority of western readers, hence their extreme susceptibility to biased reporting. >If you’re going to end with this sort of false equivalence, it kind of colors the rest of your argument and makes me wonder if you are being disingenuous here. The closest analogy to HK protestors are alt-right, they match all the hallmarks…

You have an incredibly condescending, disrespectful and aggressive tone, one that seems to suggest that you believe that everybody you speak with here is utterly uninformed when it comes to China. It’s not a good look, and probably does more to damage your point than if you had just argued in good faith instead.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#154

Post by millstone »

cromwellian wrote: post #108
baddox wrote: post #9

Can I play devil's advocate for just a moment? Gruber asks for evidence. His only complaints seems to be the lack of evidence and a question of whether the app violates local (Hong Kong) law. Cook's memo directly addresses both of those issues: > However, over the past several days we received credible information, from the Hong Kong Cybersecurity and Technology Crime Bureau, as well as from users in Hong Kong, that…

Apple was in a similar situation with the FBI asking to unlock suspected terrorist phones, and they pushed back. Let's not give them a pass here, as it's quite obvious why they're accepting the Chinese statements at face value, because of how dependent they are on the Chinese market. This is about money, not principles.

I don't think Apple deserves a pass, but removing an app from the store is not similar to creating a special version of the OS with a backdoor.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#155

Post by insulanus »

derefr wrote: post #69
bcrosby95 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Permanent removal from China would probably be worse for freedom in China over 20 years, I'm curious about how you came to this conclusion.

For one thing, pretty much every Android device made for the Chinese market has had its OS adulterated in some way, at OEM build time, at the behest of the Chinese government. Whereas, Chinese resellers can't really adulterate an iPhone's OS; there's just the one OS image (per model), signed and sealed by Apple, and if China wants to put a rootkit on it, they'd have to convince Apple to put it into that same base-ima…

Well, you're pretty close here.

Yes, the iPhone has the best secure enclave.

However, there is nothing stopping Apple from making separate builds with extra "features" for the Chinese market, and installing them. Same keys, OS version chosen by region. Boom. Chinese version acceptable to Chinese government, rest of the world secure. Easy.

From my experience in this area, I would expect the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology to accept nothing less.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#156

Post by umvi »

If I were Tim Cook, I'd have said: "Sure, we'll comply with your demands" and then I would have immediately mobilized a covert engineering task force to push out an urgent bug fix that rigs every Apple device in the entirety of China to turn into a Winnie the Pooh brick on Xi's birthday

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#157

Post by johnny22 »

dirtyid wrote: post #119

In the last week, HK police vehicles have been singled out, ambushed, officers mobbed and attacked with molotov cocktails. Rioters are shot in self protection. Mainland owned stores are targeted when police are not near. All aided by this app that is facilitating extreme violence on the ground. Of course this doesn't add up to western main stream media news readers who were presented with one-sided peaceful protest n…

protest isn't always non-violent, so that point is irrelevant to me. without being concerned for that point, your whole argument is invalid (to me)

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#158

Post by [deleted] »

millstone wrote: post #154
cromwellian wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple was in a similar situation with the FBI asking to unlock suspected terrorist phones, and they pushed back. Let's not give them a pass here, as it's quite obvious why they're accepting the Chinese statements at face value, because of how dependent they are on the Chinese market. This is about money, not principles.

I don't think Apple deserves a pass, but removing an app from the store is not similar to creating a special version of the OS with a backdoor.

[deleted]

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#160

Post by johnny22 »

dirtyid wrote: post #141
dmitrygr wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all completely normal for a revolution in a region that wants to be independent. It's about time everyone recognized that that's what it is all about. Or did you truly believe that Hong Kong and everyone in it were okay ceasing to have freedom in 2047?

I believe 0.005% of the population can't revolt against an emerging superpower. People in the west think it's 7 million protesters when the reality is 7/1400 million. It's a fringe movement rooted in (justifiable) structural dissatisfaction expressed through bigotry against the only people who can help them. Ever considered why no protesters had the idea of waving the Chinese flag and petitioning the Chinese for chan…

that's only because of folks like you cheering it on.
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