Earlier quoted context omitted.
This argument makes no sense. The super rich aren’t keeping their money under a mattress. They’re investing in VC, public markets, etc. It’s the exact same result, except instead of investing in the same company, profits can be invested in a different company.
...whereupon they reap the profits. The new reality is, the money men own most everything, and skim the vast majority of benefit from every industry. It's not about how much money is in the system. Its about who benefits from it.
Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes
131–140 of 161 posts
Re: Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes
#132Why the notion that gov't should be the provider & arbiter of all? Why do none of the "they don't pay enough taxes" crowd not realize the rich do so much of, and more efficiently, what the gov't purports to with massive overhead? Job creation, charity, arts funding, lowering costs of necessities, etc - and at levels & locations which gov't would never achieve. The "tax/soak the rich" notion seems almost entirely puni…
> Why the notion that gov't should be the provider & arbiter of all? Because the government is democratically elected. Billionaires are not. > Why do none of the "they don't pay enough taxes" crowd not realize the rich do so much of, and more efficiently, what the gov't purports to with massive overhead? [citation needed] In fact, there's an easy counter-example. Healthcare. More expensive than any public system, wit…
Billionaires are as much democratically elected via purchase. Noone put a gun to our head to use AWS use Google or buy a car. On the other hand, political party campaigns require billionaires' cash. Doesn't look so democratic.
Re: Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my opinion, the problem isn't that people hate on Billionaires for philanthropic acts, but increasing wealth gap. In other words - very fact that billionaires exist.
Unless you believe everybody is equally skilled at managing money, investment and entrepreneurship, it's natural that some people will be more successful than others. China 70 years ago had no wealth gap, because everyone was dirt poor (except maybe the Party members).
1) In my opinion, on an everyday scale of richness, the most important causal factor is family background, including inheritance. Would you support abolishing all forms of inheritance? Then skill could develop on an even, level playing field. For some reason the same people who say the rich are rich because they are skilled and work hard, are the same people who really want to keep the system of inheritance intact.
2) On the billionaire level of richness it is mostly luck, out of a strictly limited pool of potential candidates.
Re: Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
These individuals accumulated their massive wealth by utilizing the infrastructure and economic substrate of our society. So the people who make up that society have a right to decide democratically how some of those resources are allocated. That’s the deal. Even assuming you are right, there are many more important values than mere efficiency. Governments are the only bodies which can realistically pursue the values…
Everybody had equal access to the infrastructure and economic substrate, billionaires just made better use of it to generate more value, so why should they have to pay more?
Also, doesn't it seem fair that those who benefit the most from society contribute back the most?
> Everybody had equal access to the infrastructure and economic substrate
Lastly, this point is more thornier, but I think it is easy to say that this isn't true across the board.
Re: Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes
#135Go ahead and tax the likes of Bill Gates at 70%. You won't get much more than you do now, relatively speaking.
Re: Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes
#136At least everyone can agree that government taxing should be higher than government spending^. This article is mainly baiting rich v poor division; on a close read it doesn't actually say much. The real issue is that everything in general has become so complicated that nobody has a hope of understanding how it works. Unless we have accountants on deck today nobody really has a feel for how much the rich pay in taxes…
Re: Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because the government is democratically elected. Tyranny of the majority is a bad thing.
> Tyranny of the majority is a bad thing. Tyranny of the minority is significantly worse.
Re: Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes
#138Re: Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
These individuals accumulated their massive wealth by utilizing the infrastructure and economic substrate of our society. So the people who make up that society have a right to decide democratically how some of those resources are allocated. That’s the deal. Even assuming you are right, there are many more important values than mere efficiency. Governments are the only bodies which can realistically pursue the values…
Everybody had equal access to the infrastructure and economic substrate, billionaires just made better use of it to generate more value, so why should they have to pay more?
Re: Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
Neither point is good. If I only earn $50 a day and decide to buy a sandwich which has a meal tax of $1.00 - the problem isn’t that I just paid 5% of my earnings in sales taxes. The problem is I’m only earning $50 a day. But even more to the point is that that only way you can calculate that someone earning $15,000 a year is paying a “higher tax rate” than someone earning $15 million a year is by ignore the fact that…
So what you are saying is until you hit the 4th decile you are working for a business who is subsidizing its payroll with tax dollars
In a competitive market with low switching costs, workers get paid roughly what their work is worth. It’s government’s function to ensure the market is competitive and the switching costs are low.
But a competitive market with low switching costs does not guarantee that every worker is capable of performing at the median in terms of value creation. In fact it’s a mathematical impossibility.
So in perfectly competitive market with a progressive taxation model, lower income earners will be subsidized by the higher income earners, despite everyone being paid entirely competitive and appropriate wages for their individual contributions.
It’s not the employers responsibility to subsidize below-median earners, because they aren’t the ones collecting the surplus from the above-median earners.
I personally think that most of these subsidies shouldn’t ever phase out, specifically because they screw over the middle class with punitive marginal tax rates. The net effect is that you still cross from negative to positive effective taxes at some point, but it happens with a much smoother marginal tax rate versus gross income.
A completely different discussion is whether employers should be able to hire very low skilled workers to do menial jobs at very low pay, or whether we should force employers to provide training and support to employees to the point where they can perform enough valuable work to justify some minimum wage, and everything else just needs to be automated away.