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Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

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Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#611

Just when I complimented Apple for the first time in my life. I can retract the same comment within 24 hours. How can they keep a straight face, promoting security and privacy after such a public failure, where obviously profits come first. I'm pretty sure that the Chinese bots, that gave the app a 1-star rating aren't banned at all.

This is nothing new, in the Tim Cook era they've been overly eager to shout loudly about social issues on stage and in the press.

Yet when it comes down to rich markets like this situation, the Taiwan's flag emoji being disabled or disabling the pride flag/watch face in Russia and the Middle East, these ideals go right out the window.

Only happy to shout loud on these issues when there are zero repercussions about them, second it could possibly mean a dip in profits they roll over in an instant.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In principle code signing is a good idea, this way Apple can ensure an improved security standard over their competition. There is nothing wrong with code signing. There is everything wrong with making Apple the sole arbiter of mandatory code signing. It's the difference between being against locks, and being against someone else owning the keys to your house. --- > I won't blame Apple, they aren't people [...] I b…

> Corporations are not robots. Apple is run by people, and specifically people who are much more knowledgable on this subject than the average consumer. They should feel some level of social responsibility. Sometimes I wonder how many instances to the contrary people need to get this falsehood out of their heads. Corporations are only beholden to their shareholders, if any one person at Apple (including the CEO) is n…

> if any one person at Apple (including the CEO) is not at all times acting solely to maximize the profit to their shareholders they will be replaced by someone who will.

Google apple largest shareholders

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#613

This is why Apple will always be a second-class citizen to Android. If I have a good reason, I can toggle a setting and install APKs built by anyone. If I have a good reason, I can wipe my phone and unlock the bootloader to literally replace and de-Google the entire OS. When I buy a phone, it's a hardware product I'm buying. Just like when you buy a PC/laptop, what you run on it is your business, not the manufacturer…

Why? You want to meddle in politics of foreign countries?

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#614
post #315

Here we go again... Let me explain how Chinese people think about HK, since none of them ever seem to explain it on a site like this. Imagine you are a middle class American. Maybe you are but if not, just imagine, tech city on the east or west coast. You're pretty invested in being an American, skin in the game, manifest destiny etc. Very good. They call this tianxia by the way, basically Chinese manifest destiny. L…

I get what you're trying to say, but this comment is really far off of the mark. It's good to care about Chinese culture, but it's another thing entirely to elevate culture over human rights. What does it matter what the average Chinese citizen thinks about this? By pulling the app, Apple is taking the side of an oppressive regime against Hong Kong. Whether or not 90% of Chinese citizens agree with Hong Kong is utter…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#616

It helps to know a little bit about what's been going on in Hong Kong, before you all decide to line up and take your daily dump on China. It all started a few months ago when someone committed a crime in Taiwan and fled to Hong Kong. To prevent HK from becoming a safe haven for criminals, the Chief Executive of HK proposed a new law to facilitate extradition of these crime suspects from HK to various jurisdictions i…

I recognised the author's username before even reading the body of the comment. HN is inundated with recently created or recently reactivated accounts posting CCP propaganda. These accounts don't necessarily belong to bots or shills, but they are nonetheless part of a state orchestrated social media influence campaign. Reddit has addressed this with mass purges and browser extensions that allow shared tagging of user…

Do you have any concrete evidence to back this up? Labeling other as bots/shills or propaganda accounts is a common tactic to silence people you don't agree with.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#617
post #315

Here we go again... Let me explain how Chinese people think about HK, since none of them ever seem to explain it on a site like this. Imagine you are a middle class American. Maybe you are but if not, just imagine, tech city on the east or west coast. You're pretty invested in being an American, skin in the game, manifest destiny etc. Very good. They call this tianxia by the way, basically Chinese manifest destiny. L…

this is a very interesting comment here because it exposes how different the chinese and american polities really are.

america is not a unified bloc, internally. nor does it aspire to be. the differences between a city in massachusetts and a city in louisiana are greater than the differences between a city in massachusetts and a city in ontario -- and ontario's in a different country altogether. in other words, social and cultural distance between two regions in the US can be significantly higher than the cultural distance from one region in the US to another country. i do not think the same principle applies to china. for china, its neighbors are decidedly alien, so the cultural distance between regions within china seems very small in comparison, even if in reality it is substantial.

to return to the OP's example: if alabama tried to secede, i'd be fine with letting them go. heck, i'd be glad they even tried to leave, because it would make a credible threat to the federal government that other states would follow along and also secede if things didn't improve promptly.

i wouldn't wish them success though, because knowing that it's alabama, i would assume that their reasons for secession were incompatible with my vision for the country. in other words, if a state liek alabama really tried to secede, my position would be that they probably weren't going to be compatible with the best iteration of america anyway -- perhaps because they'd come off as a neo-confederate or something similarly regrettable.

but in principle, i don't think i would support efforts to stop them leaving or claiming more rights. i'd prefer apple to not handicap them to appease the federal government, even if i don't like the alabamans or their values very much. why?

because i understand that a restriction targeting them today will be used against me tomorrow. and i resent the idea that a private company can dictate what my hardware runs, especially retroactively.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “just don’t spend money there” is a bit reductionist and trivializes the problem of corporations with more power than nation-states. You're totally mistaken if you believe that boycotts and the like aren't taken seriously by big companies, especially companies like Apple where the brand is more important than the product. Of course, it all depends on the size of the boycott, but it doesn't have to cost them million…

They are seeking new revenue in the Chinese market. To them they see a minuscule boycott in the US as the cost of gaining that market- net positive.

Things aren't so black and white behind the scenes. Whether or not a boycott is "minuscule" isn't measured in dollars, it's how the brand is perceived and the second-order effects that perception creates.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#619

This is a vexing problem. It seems that many here would want Apply to defy China. This will result in Apple's expulsion from China/HK. Those users will then move to other phone mfgs/services providers, with higher probability that it will be Chinese, thereby granting the PRC even more power over HK'ers. Contrarily is the "seat at the table" approach. Apple could comply with China, while continually introducing featur…

>Apple's expulsion from China/HK

There is 0% chance of this happening. Right now the PRC is heavily relying on the majority of the mainland China population not looking too closely at what's happening in HK, and just considering it "a few students making trouble". But if all Apple services suddenly stop working, there's going to be a huge "hang on a sec, what's going on again?" reaction, which will lead to an incredible amount of trouble for the PRC.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#620
post #315

Here we go again... Let me explain how Chinese people think about HK, since none of them ever seem to explain it on a site like this. Imagine you are a middle class American. Maybe you are but if not, just imagine, tech city on the east or west coast. You're pretty invested in being an American, skin in the game, manifest destiny etc. Very good. They call this tianxia by the way, basically Chinese manifest destiny. L…

Biased much? And why are you assuming that everyone here isn't familiar with the dynamics of China and Hong Kong? Maybe you just want to repeat the Chinese propaganda/rhetoric in hope of swaying some minds? You haven't even provided a single shred of evidence to support the beliefs you are attributing to the vast number of Chinese people. Hacker news is a site of logic and evidence based reasoning, not for propagatin…

Obviously I can't provide evidence supporting my understandings gained from personal relationships and private conversations. No, I haven't conducted some large-scale peer-reviewed survey. Of course they don't exist.

I don't know what you imagine I might have to gain from "spreading propaganda". I'm simply trying to explain, from my understanding, how "the other side" often feels. I don't know where you think "bias" enters into it. I've even explicitly said I totally disagree. I don't know what else to say?

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