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Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

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Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#291
post #244
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What proportion of China's economy is HK? I don't know a good source but I recall seeing it's a low single digit percentage of China as a whole. They definitely punch above their weight per capita but I feel like China is more than willing and able to take the loss. After all, with Western governments changing every few years, who will even remember in a decade?

Measuring Hong Kong's importance for China by its GDP is as useful as measuring your eyes' importance to you by their weight.

>Measuring Hong Kong's importance for China by its GDP is as useful as measuring your eyes' importance to you by their weight.

Interesting. How does Hong Kong function as China's "eyes" in your analogy?

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we just use more specific terms? China remains very much Leninist , and to a lesser extent Maoist ; it has however mostly ceased to be Marxist . They kept the basic political forms but moved to a relatively liberal economic model.

I'm curious as to how China is "Leninist" at all. The fact of rule by one party that claims to represent the working class does not a Leninist state make.

Perhaps Leninist in a historical sense of "thought violence to gain control in a type of region Marx himself thought wouldn't be viable".

Putting aside his philosophy's flaws he expected a feudalism to capitalism to communism progression more or less.

Lenin was not only part of ousting the czar but establishment of the party as a nominally proletariat peasant dictatorship. That attempted teological speedrunning to try to "skip to the end" is classic Lenin.

Even if the system later reforms there is still a legacy in the how. France and England are both parliamentary representative democracies who were once under monarchies but the UK has far more monarchist vestiges than France. While technically accurate to call France as monarchist legacied they would have far more grounds to object to the labeling given the purge of nobility and subsequent traditions - even when they fell into dictatorships again they certainly weren't kings.

To be pedantic we could describe these aspect vestiges as "x legacied". That the West uses latin as it does for mottos and species names is a Roman legacy for instance for it is a trace of their power as lasting influence even though it does not exist today. It does not imply current control any more than Byzantium had control over western Europe.

China may be better described amongst many other attributes as Leninist legacied, oligarchy legacied, Capitalist dictatorship until Xinjiang's inevitable demise.

The fact he consolidated control over Oligarchic and has no clear explicit succession line makes him dictatorial as opposed to mere Oligarchic "the remaining few interests will pick after him". If as the whispered snark of "Emperor Xi" holds and he successfully transmits power to offspring he will have founded an empire (if it dies quickly it wouldn't be the first Chinese dynasty to do so).

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#293
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree and think this is a very helpful perspective. It's too much to expect companies to choose ethics over profit, even if the companies are temporarily made up of ethical people -- these are mere components. (Hence the goal of governments/regulations should be to align profit-making with societal goals.)

>It's too much to expect companies to choose ethics over profit, even if the companies are temporarily made up of ethical people -- these are mere components. What's with the apologist mindset there? If you can't hold a group of people accountable for ethical conduct, from whence comes the idea that singular actors should be regulatable by traditional justice systems? Corporations were intended to distribute risk to…

Thanks for the post, I strongly agree with your points and may have stated mine badly. I am purely stating a descriptive view of how the world works. My conclusion is that we cannot just sit back and hope companies will act ethically. We have to actively shape the rules to incentivize or require them to do so.

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we just use more specific terms? China remains very much Leninist , and to a lesser extent Maoist ; it has however mostly ceased to be Marxist . They kept the basic political forms but moved to a relatively liberal economic model.

I'm curious as to how China is "Leninist" at all. The fact of rule by one party that claims to represent the working class does not a Leninist state make.

>I'm curious as to how China is "Leninist" at all.

China officially describe its ideology as Marxist-Leninism. I mean, depending on how strict your definition of "Leninist" is, even the USSR may not have been "'Leninist' at all".

>The fact of rule by one party that claims to represent the working class does not a Leninist state make.

The notion of the vanguard party is, in fact, a key concept in Leninism.[0] The vanguard party was conceived in opposition to forming trade unions, and was supposed to recruit from the working class. AFAIK trade unions don't exist in China, and the CPC does recruit widely, so it does satisfy the criteria of a vanguard party.

Marxist-Leninism also advocates atheism, another key aspect of Chinese policy.[1]

Also, I found this amusing: did you know Singapore is led by a party that was originally organised as a Leninist party? [2]

>In Singapore, the People's Action Party (PAP) was organised as a Leninist political party featuring internal democracy. The PAP initiated single-party dominance in the government and popular politics of Singapore.[3]

Of course, the PAP later expunged its leftist faction and swung to the right, but it still retains a lot of the Leninist structure.[4] Imagine, a billionaire's playground run by a centre-right party organised like a Leninist vanguard party.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leninism#The_vanguard_party

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist%E2%80%93Leninist_athei...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leninism#Philosophic_successor...

[3] Peter Wilson, Economic growth and development in Singapore (2002) p. 30.

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Action_Party#Organi...

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#295
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now here's a thought ... could video games and entertainment be tools for generating change in countries? Could every game developer and internet service pulling their services from China completely compel the population to try to change their regime? I know if suddenly my entertainment was taken away I would flip my shit if it was my government that was responsible. Edit : To offset potential cost to companies, coul…

Interesting! It's certainly subsidized by China , so yes. Continuing your thought. In the past, wars were fought physically by damaging the opponent. We are at a place in history where we can fight not with fists and bullets, but with entertainment . Like national rap battles. Wars were fought over resources : water, oil, food. Now they are fought over games, movies, ... products . Instead of war winners being those…

>We are at a place in history where we can fight not with fists and bullets, but with entertainment.

Not sure if sarcastic or genuine, but er... you know that this used to be called "soft power"? As in America used to have all this soft power and made the whole world worship how awesome American life is? Like, even Rammstein sang about how "we all live in Amerika / Amerika ist wunderbar"?

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#296
post #84

I figured it out! Why are we so up in arms about this? Why not before this? Well, because we were insulated from China's behavior. Their heavy handed approach only affected their own citizens. They jailed their own citizens, but not Americans, not other people. We got our supply chain from them and they gave us what we wanted, so we're good. However! Now China's tyranny is leaking out of China. It's getting into aren…

Now here's a thought ... could video games and entertainment be tools for generating change in countries? Could every game developer and internet service pulling their services from China completely compel the population to try to change their regime? I know if suddenly my entertainment was taken away I would flip my shit if it was my government that was responsible. Edit : To offset potential cost to companies, coul…

>Now here's a thought ... could video games and entertainment be tools for generating change in countries?

Been there, done that. It was called "soft power", and the US used to wield it in spades.

>To offset potential cost to companies, could this behavior be subsidized by our government?

Your government used to. Hollywood wasn't built in a day, you know.

>Could every game developer and internet service pulling their services from China completely compel the population to try to change their regime?

I'm dying here...

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grinding Gear Games (GGG), the makers of Path of Exile have recently been purchased by Tencent, with an 80% stake. This ownership will increase to 100% in the next couple of years. If you want to boycott pro-China companies, PoE and GGG aren't a good choice!

Torchlight, another popular alternative ARPG, is also owned by Runic Games which was purchased by Perfect World, which is owned and operated out of China.

Crate Entertainment, makers of Grim Dawn, still appear to be independent at least.

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#298
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m amazed at just how open (and wrong) cctv’s recent reply to the nba scandal was: “We are strongly dissatisfied and we oppose Silver’s claim to support Morey’s right of free expression. We believe that any speech that challenges national sovereignty and social stability is not within the scope of freedom of speech,” CCTV said in its statement in Chinese, which was translated by CNBC“ This is not just wrong, it’s so…

The message from Heartstone's official Weibo account read similarly. It reads like it's written by a party member, not some corporate PR employee. It reads like something I'd expect to have come out of the USSR in the 80s. It's all very disturbing. It's also strangely familiar in that regard, and quite frightening when taken from that perspective.

Oh and now blizzard is preventing users from canceling their accounts?

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#299
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Hong Kong's entire value, as far as I can see [...] Keep in mind that that's the perspective you've been conditioned to see by the media you've consumed. >If it becomes a homogenized satellite of Shenzhen with sky high real estate, which seems to be what China wants, what's left of Hong Kong? Well, for one thing, the unstable political condition is likely to change the "sky high real estate" bit. >I thought China wa…

Independence is not one of the demands of the protestors. Please provide a source for that claim.

>Independence is not one of the demands of the protestors. Please provide a source for that claim.

Point taken. But it was one of the demands of some protesters in the past[0], so I must have got that confused with the current demands of the 2019 protesters.

Be that as it may be, the comment I was replying to was echoing points made by the pro-independence movement in justifying their stance, in particular by highlighting Hong Kong's allegedly distinct cultural identity.[1]

I'd think, for instance, that Macau has a more distinctive cultural identity than HK, and in any case, harshreality's argument sought to portray China as a cultural monolith.

The reality is that there are at least as many cultural identities as there are provinces, and in Guangdong province alone, there are three separate dialect groups -- Yue (Cantonese)[2], Hakka[3], Southern Min (Teochew[4], Leizhou[5]) -- each with their own distinct culture.

You may see why, from a certain perspective, the cultural identity argument of the pro-independence movement is rather specious. But harshreality isn't the only commentator I've seen who's brought up HK's cultural identity as an argument.

Finally, perhaps I should let a Hongkonger speak for himself. Lewis Lau Yiu-man is a commentator based in Hong Kong, who writes for Stand News[6], a pro-democracy online news website, and contributed this piece[7] to the New York Times last month. After a historical preamble, he made this claim:

>That’s because — want it or not, know it or not — the Umbrella Movement planted the seed of separatism in the city. I don’t mean that the idea was entirely new: There had been some proponents of localism, at the margins. And I don’t mean that separatism is now the order of the day[...] I mean that the Umbrella Movement was, in fact, an independence movement — but an independence movement that didn’t know itself.

He even analyses Beijing's perspective:

>And so from Beijing’s perspective, when pro-democracy protesters and their supporters reject what it perceives as its right to intervene here, they are challenging its very sovereignty. In this, at least, Beijing is correct. It knows what many Hong Kongers don’t seem to have fully appreciated: Admit it or not, we are actually rejecting Chinese sovereignty — we are already an independence movement in disguise. And it all started with the Umbrella Movement.

So there's your source.

[0] https://time.com/4440708/hong-kong-independence-china-locali...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_independence#Reasons

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yue_Chinese

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakka_Chinese

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teochew_dialect

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leizhou_Min

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_News

[7] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/27/opinion/hong-kong-umbrell...

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you see companies that aren't partially owned by Chinese interests doing things like this? Admittedly I'm not fully up to speed on the situation, but I doubt Blizzard would have taken this action without considering Tencent's influence.

> without considering Tencent's influence At 5% ownership, Tencent doesn't have the muscle to force Blizzard to do anything it wouldn't have already done of its own volition.

>At 5% ownership, Tencent doesn't have the muscle to force Blizzard to do anything it wouldn't have already done of its own volition.

And at 40% ownership, Tencent apparently also doesn't have the muscle to force Epic Games to do anything:

https://www.insider.com/epic-unlike-blizzard-wont-ban-player...

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