Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

431–440 of 931 posts

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#431

Post by sho »

IanSanders wrote: post #413
sho wrote: post #315

Here we go again... Let me explain how Chinese people think about HK, since none of them ever seem to explain it on a site like this. Imagine you are a middle class American. Maybe you are but if not, just imagine, tech city on the east or west coast. You're pretty invested in being an American, skin in the game, manifest destiny etc. Very good. They call this tianxia by the way, basically Chinese manifest destiny. L…

Just one question. Yes or no. >Let me explain how Chinese people think about HK Do you mean all Chinese people?

No, just the majority, as I understand it, and as I believe their actions demonstrate.

Of course I can't know the inner secrets of a billion minds, but it's my genuine belief that what I wrote is at least mostly in the right direction.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#432

Post by Wowfunhappy »

api wrote: post #428
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because the locked-down nature of the iPhone is always made out to be an all-or-nothing policy. I legitimately don't understand why. There are real benefits to having a curated, sandboxed, and audited selection of safe, quality software. Most users should never need to leave such an environment What is necessary is an escape hatch—one that doesn't involve continual software reinstalls, or outright buying new har…

I spoke with a former Apple dev on this topic once. He says that you can opt out of code signing and the App Store on Mac because that's a professional OS, but for iOS the security rationale for not allowing that is that it's geared for less tech-savvy users. Paraphrasing: "If there is a way to opt out, malicious apps and sites will con users into doing it to get malware on the phone." I can't totally disagree. To ha…

I am sympathetic to the Dancing Bunnies Problem [1]. However, when I weigh the societal harm of (A) preventing people who are very dedicated to shooting themselves in the foot from shooting themselves in the foot, versus (B) protesters being unable to share and access important safety information, the choice is clear.

[1] https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-dancing-bunnies-problem/

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#434

Post by mistermann »

jbattle wrote: post #402
whatshisface wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American exceptionalism isn't the same thing as manifest destiny. Republicans might be patriotic but most do not support wars of conquest or global expansionism. In fact, the "America first" slogan that recently helped win an election has been attacked as isolationist.

You're right. I read 'manifest destiny' as short hand for "USA USA!" boosterism. China obviously isn't an expansionist colonial power either. But I concede the point that Manifest Destiny really hasn't been an active doctrine in our lifetime. Maaaaybe if you look at the Project for the New American Century with the right lens.

> China obviously isn't an expansionist colonial power either.

Maybe not colonial in a ~legal sense, but some of the deals they're doing with weaker countries seem designed to grant them significant power.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#435

Post by jonfw »

scarface74 wrote: post #426
bmarquez wrote: post #389

Apple's walled garden is a double-edged sword. If Apple would allow users to easily* sideload applications like Android, protesters can easily bypass these types of bans. *telling someone to install Xcode or Cydia Impactor and resigning a certificate every 7 days is too much for the average user

Or if all the app does is report police presence using your location, they could create a website and not need an app at all....

hkmap.live

The map is online as well, I guess they also wanted the app

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#436

Post by cageface »

sho wrote: post #380
zwkrt wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not an argument in good faith. Alabama has no precedence of self governance, and that precedence is not being actively threatened by the US government. The thought that HK protesters (or Alabamians) just want to “marry their cousins or something” is icing on the cake. Just because some people think it is so does not make it so.

Oh come on I was trying to illustrate a feeling, not make a watertight legal argument. If you want to talk about precedent - how about polygamy in Utah? There was a long precedent of that. Substitute that if you like. I was trying to convey a feeling.

Utahns agreed to give up polygamy in order to join the Union. It's almost the opposite of the current situation in Hong Kong.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#437

Post by scarface74 »

Ben Thompson of Stratechery talks about this a lot. Apple always says they want to own the most important pieces of their products but then Tim Cook when he was COO made the decision to be completely beholden to China for their manufacturing. I hope that Apple is seriously trying to diversify their supply chain out of China. It can be done at scale - Samsung moved all of their manufacturing out of Chins.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#438

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

kop316 wrote: post #415
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using Android since the beginning, and I think Google is making it worse and worse with each passing day. I was thinking of switching to Apple. I really like where they're going with this privacy stuff. But, no, not a chance. Fuck Apple forever over this decision. I will never buy an Apple product in my life unless they make this right.

In (quasi)defense of Google on this front: On my Google Pixel 3a, I can download AOSP to my own computer, modify it how I wish, scrape the vendor dependencies I need[1], compile it myself, sign it myself, and use my own key to control what OS gets installed, then relock the bootloader so it only trusts updates using my key! I can choose not to use Google Play and then install whatever App I want on it. I wish I could…

Also in quasi defense of Google (note that I work there), it almost do no business in China. So it doesn't bend over to The CCP.

Moving forward, my biggest purchasing decision as a consumer is going to be based on how much ties a company has to The CCP. I feel like my freedom is under direct threat from The CCP more than anything else, and I'll treat it accordingly when making purchasing decisions moving forward.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#439

Post by rtkwe »

donohoe wrote: post #424
jakelazaroff wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, this article is from today.

Right, but I'm asking if this article is outdated already? Often a story gets held up while being written and doesn't account for developments in last few days. It is just confusing as they don't state that this would be Apple undoing a previous reversal in the fate of this app. Update: ok, Apple did initial reinstated it and has removed it again. https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/09/apple-pulls-hkmap-from-app...

The article is from today and references tweets made today (10/10) and dates the removal to late 10/9... There's no evidence that this is an out of date article. Apple caved, uncaved, then recaved again.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#440

Post by otachack »

not_a_cop75 wrote: post #407
donohoe wrote: post #354

Wait. They did ban it. Then they approved it again. Have they banned it again? See BoingBoing article from Oct 4th: "Apple reverses ban on HKmap.live app tracking Hong Kong protests & police" https://boingboing.net/2019/10/04/hkmap-live-hong-kong.html

Is it like it cant be loaded via other means? Apple store, surprisingly enough is not the only game in town when getting things to install to Apple.

Technically can pony up for a Enterprise account ($200/yr?) and have protestors install the app after trusting the Enterprise org. You just have to host the IPA on a site somewhere.

If you want to build the source code and install the app to a device, you still need at least a Dev account ($99/yr) and macOS+Xcode. Without an account you won't have the provisioning and certificates to install on a "Dev" device. You are also limited to just 100 test devices I think under a regular dev account.

Another option is to crack the phone, then you can just go through third party repos to fetch the app.

Post reply on HN