Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#421

Post by api » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:55 PM UTC

Imagine instead that this reads "After Trump tweet, Apple removes app used by border protestors."

That's exactly what this is.

In a way the China thing is even worse because Apple is not a Chinese company. There is realistically more Trump could do to harm Apple than the CCP.

Of course I suppose Apple has outsourced all their manufacturing to China, so there's that. I must admit a bit of schadenfreude at watching the great greed-driven amoral outsourcing rush of the past 50 years start backfiring badly as I knew it always would.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#422

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:56 PM UTC

jbattle wrote: post #402

whatshisface wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American exceptionalism isn't the same thing as manifest destiny. Republicans might be patriotic but most do not support wars of conquest or global expansionism. In fact, the "America first" slogan that recently helped win an election has been attacked as isolationist.

You're right. I read 'manifest destiny' as short hand for "USA USA!" boosterism. China obviously isn't an expansionist colonial power either. But I concede the point that Manifest Destiny really hasn't been an active doctrine in our lifetime. Maaaaybe if you look at the Project for the New American Century with the right lens.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#423

Post by sho » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:57 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #384

jbattle wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go read the comment section on Breitbart or Fox or Red State. American Exceptionalism is still gospel truth for ~half the country

American exceptionalism isn't the same thing as manifest destiny. Republicans might be patriotic but most do not support wars of conquest or global expansionism. In fact, the "America first" slogan that recently helped win an election has been attacked as isolationist.

> American exceptionalism isn't the same thing as manifest destiny

Sorry, you're probably right. I confess I'm not really aware of the exact difference. I meant the general feeling of "America is the best", which I think is pretty undeniable, at least as the rest of the world experiences it. My point was to contrast it with the Chinese, who have the exact same feeling.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#424

Post by donohoe » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:57 PM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #399

donohoe wrote: post #354

Wait. They did ban it. Then they approved it again. Have they banned it again? See BoingBoing article from Oct 4th: "Apple reverses ban on HKmap.live app tracking Hong Kong protests & police" https://boingboing.net/2019/10/04/hkmap-live-hong-kong.html

Yup, this article is from today.

Right, but I'm asking if this article is outdated already?

Often a story gets held up while being written and doesn't account for developments in last few days. It is just confusing as they don't state that this would be Apple undoing a previous reversal in the fate of this app.

Update: ok, Apple did initial reinstated it and has removed it again.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/09/apple-pulls-hkmap-from-app...

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#425

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:57 PM UTC

helpPeople wrote: post #305

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #297

And in one fell swoop, Apple has made it effectively impossible to install this app on your phone. There's no realistic workaround. † Apple should never have been capable of making such a drastic decision for all of their customers. It's one thing to make determinations about what products are allowed in your store, but quite another to unilaterally ban software from what is many people's primary computer. We live in…

To be fair, Apple users consider it a benefit to not have control over their phones. I know right? It's crazy people pay more money for less. I'm not sure how to teach Apple users, they seem to find an excuse for every anti-consumer thing they do.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#426

Post by scarface74 » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:58 PM UTC

bmarquez wrote: post #389

Apple's walled garden is a double-edged sword. If Apple would allow users to easily* sideload applications like Android, protesters can easily bypass these types of bans. *telling someone to install Xcode or Cydia Impactor and resigning a certificate every 7 days is too much for the average user

Or if all the app does is report police presence using your location, they could create a website and not need an app at all....

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#427

Post by blhack » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:58 PM UTC

sho wrote: post #315

Here we go again... Let me explain how Chinese people think about HK, since none of them ever seem to explain it on a site like this. Imagine you are a middle class American. Maybe you are but if not, just imagine, tech city on the east or west coast. You're pretty invested in being an American, skin in the game, manifest destiny etc. Very good. They call this tianxia by the way, basically Chinese manifest destiny. L…

edit: I removed this comment. I travel in China.

(HN doesnt' apparently allow me to "delete" it, so I apologize for the edit.)

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#428

Post by api » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:58 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #314

helpPeople wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, Apple users consider it a benefit to not have control over their phones. I know right? It's crazy people pay more money for less. I'm not sure how to teach Apple users, they seem to find an excuse for every anti-consumer thing they do.

It's because the locked-down nature of the iPhone is always made out to be an all-or-nothing policy. I legitimately don't understand why. There are real benefits to having a curated, sandboxed, and audited selection of safe, quality software. Most users should never need to leave such an environment What is necessary is an escape hatch—one that doesn't involve continual software reinstalls, or outright buying new har…

I spoke with a former Apple dev on this topic once. He says that you can opt out of code signing and the App Store on Mac because that's a professional OS, but for iOS the security rationale for not allowing that is that it's geared for less tech-savvy users. Paraphrasing: "If there is a way to opt out, malicious apps and sites will con users into doing it to get malware on the phone."

I can't totally disagree. To have a completely secure device you have to lock out the user since the user is often the least secure component of the system.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#429

Post by uberduper » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:59 PM UTC

jedimastert wrote: post #412

SwiftyBug wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the code is open source one could compile it and run it directly on their device. But they would need a Mac to build the code on Xcode.

Don't you also need some sort of developer license to side-load apps like that?

You can get a free developer account which will let you sign an app for 7 days. You just have to redo it every week.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#430

Post by afarrell » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:59 PM UTC

helpPeople wrote: post #306

stephc_int13 wrote: post #261

Blizzard and now Apple. I think this is very serious and it should be a wake-up call. As simple citizens we don't have much choices but vote with our wallets and use social networks to attack the most valuable asset of those companies, their reputation.

Don't buy stuff from them. Easy. So easy.

The name for why this is not easy is “coordination problem”.