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Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

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Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#201

Post by leppr »

Zanni wrote: post #183
toomim wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This rationale focuses on how the app has been used , rather than what it does , which could apply equally well to any text messaging or web browser app that is used illegally. Imagine if this said: > We have learned that an app, iMessage, has been used in ways that endanger law enforcement and residents in Hong Kong. Many concerned customers in Hong Kong have contacted us about this app and we immediately began inve…

I think a better distinction is between what an app allows and what it facilitates .

Could you give an example of when the distinction matters?

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#202

Post by taneq »

m0xte wrote: post #104

The privacy stance is just marketing. They have handed over iCloud keys and data to the state in China already. If they cared about privacy over market dominance that wouldn’t have happened. Unfortunately as an iOS user tied to the ecosystem this puts me in a difficult situation ethically speaking. I am sponsoring this. Perhaps I should stop buying into corporate marketing ideologies. Got burned by that before (Micro…

> They have handed over iCloud keys and data to the state in China already.

Have they not regularly done so in the U.S. too? I thought the recent-ish drama with them refusing to unlock phones was that they were being asked to break into their own secure enclave system, taking an unreasonable amount of effort and permanently making their own product less secure?

They're a big company but they're still a company. They have to abide by the laws of whatever countries they're operating in.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#203

Post by noah-kun »

Apps used by terrorist to target victims and plan attacks should absolutely be removed from the App Store.

People fail to see these folks as terrorists but they're literally trained, paid and lead by the same US politician who oversaw the Contra programs.

If you're a legitimate user of this site, please read: these attacks are coordinated with the media which repeatedly calls them "clashes", "anger boiling over", "confrontations" and "suppression (by the government)".

It's even easier to co-ordinate such messages online. Not a day goes by without stories and comments about China on this site. There's little doubt the same media coordination goes on in social media, including here. It's a weakness--perhaps deliberate--in the Internet and how we build communities.

We are all worried about privacy, etc. But when has there ever been concern over Western astro-turfing and manufacturing consent online? I've yet to see it. Repeatedly we see stories of US/NATO intelligence infiltrating and abusing power within social networks to manipulate perceptions.

Where is the platform the protests against this?

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#204

Post by Krasnol »

simonh wrote: post #165
Krasnol wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't it "the law" also when they came up with the privacy claim around that terrorist case where the FBI needed access to a device? I mean, in the end it's the same thing as the classic "I didn't do anything wrong, I've been following orders".

I'm finding it difficult to parse what you mean here. In that case Apple successfully fought the FBI demand, within the law. Had the law required them to render assistance I'm sure they would have done so, otherwise they would have been requiring their employees to break the law. Under what circumstances do you think it is acceptable for a company to require it's employees to incriminate themselves?

Not really, "appealed the ruling, but then dropped the case on April 22 after it was given the correct passcode".

> Under what circumstances do you think it is acceptable for a company to require it's employees to incriminate themselves?

Human rights violations should be more than enough.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#205

Post by leppr »

deogeo wrote: post #191
simonh wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not buy any goods made in China?

"If you can't be perfect, don't even try."

There's that and then there's being minimally consistent in one's efforts.

Kind of like someone who would make a fuss about not using plastic straws but systematically takes their car for It's not a bad idea to remind people that if they make the effort of not using online services which compromise for China, they also should make the similar effort of reducing their physical Made in China goods consumption.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#206

Post by tobias3 »

jayyhu wrote: post #53

I think Apple's action here provides a good case for breaking up platforms. If the App Store were decoupled from the main hardware-making and hardware-selling part of Apple, then there wouldn't be a conflict of interest between providing a neutral app-selling platform and retaining access to foreign markets.

Something like the "browser choice" that the EU forced Microsoft to implement for a while would do the trick. During initial iOS setup you'd have to choose which app store to use (from the currently most popular choices).

The law suit that resulted in "browser choice" started in 1993 and "browser choice" was started 2010, so this may happen "soon".

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#207

Post by dictum »

noah-kun wrote: post #203

Apps used by terrorist to target victims and plan attacks should absolutely be removed from the App Store. People fail to see these folks as terrorists but they're literally trained, paid and lead by the same US politician who oversaw the Contra programs. If you're a legitimate user of this site, please read: these attacks are coordinated with the media which repeatedly calls them "clashes", "anger boiling over", "co…

> It's even easier to co-ordinate such messages online. Not a day goes by without stories and comments about China on this site.

What shows up often is just as important as what's never seen, because it's been censored.

China knows a thing or two about manufacturing consent and astroturfing, too.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#208

Post by travisp »

m0xte wrote: post #104

The privacy stance is just marketing. They have handed over iCloud keys and data to the state in China already. If they cared about privacy over market dominance that wouldn’t have happened. Unfortunately as an iOS user tied to the ecosystem this puts me in a difficult situation ethically speaking. I am sponsoring this. Perhaps I should stop buying into corporate marketing ideologies. Got burned by that before (Micro…

Apple has not handed over the iCloud keys and has testified in the US under penalty of perjury that they have not done this and not made an exception for China. Repeating this is dangerous because it’ll cause people to take different (probably less safe and private) actions based on incorrect information.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#210

Post by notyourday »

simonh wrote: post #156
m0xte wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point when the world is legislating our privacy away? It's a pointless self-defeating marketing ploy then and nothing more.

Do you think it is ethical for a company to require it's employees to break the law?

> Do you think it is ethical for a company to require it's employees to break the law?

Unless Apple happened to be a Chinese company I'm having a trouble at finding the law that Apple is breaking. I'm sure the customers can decide if a shiny iPhone produced by an company subject to Chinese law is worth it and employees can decide if they want to be employed by a Chinese company.

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