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Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

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Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are pure lies, top to bottom.

And how exactly would you know that? There is a great deal of animosity towards police right now in HK. A very small minority of protestors have demonstrated willingness to apply violence, and police (including off-duty officers) have been attacked in the open on more than one occasion. So I don’t think it’s inconceivable that the availability of a crowdsourced map might increase such incidents. Of course, this is go…

I know that because I've been attending Hong Kong protests for two months and talking to people.

Off-duty police are not even tracked on the map, so I don't get your argument even if I accepted the false premise that attacks on police are common.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#53
I think Apple's action here provides a good case for breaking up platforms. If the App Store were decoupled from the main hardware-making and hardware-selling part of Apple, then there wouldn't be a conflict of interest between providing a neutral app-selling platform and retaining access to foreign markets.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#54
As someone who has appreciated the privacy stance Apple has had and the privacy assisting steps it has taken for a long time (long before iPhone), I believe Apple is coming out to be completely hypocritical and anti-privacy/anti-freedom on this app. I cannot believe that Tim Cook and other senior executives haven't examined this deeper and taken a bold stance to let the app stay! Shame on you, Apple!

Even John Gruber agrees: [1]

> I still haven’t seen which local laws it violates, other than the unwritten law of pissing off Beijing.

> This is a bad look for Apple, if you think capitulation is a bad look.

[1]: https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/10/10/apple-pulls-hkm...

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how exactly would you know that? There is a great deal of animosity towards police right now in HK. A very small minority of protestors have demonstrated willingness to apply violence, and police (including off-duty officers) have been attacked in the open on more than one occasion. So I don’t think it’s inconceivable that the availability of a crowdsourced map might increase such incidents. Of course, this is go…

I know that because I've been attending Hong Kong protests for two months and talking to people. Off-duty police are not even tracked on the map, so I don't get your argument even if I accepted the false premise that attacks on police are common.

I did not say that attacks on police were common. Indeed, I believe that any such attacks should be the work of a very small minority of protestors who would definitely not represent the whole.

It’s clear that attacks against off-duty police officers have happened in the past, so I included that aside as an example of the threats that police face. Of course those attacks predate the map app. Those are also the kinds of attacks that tend to make news, because they’re essentially attacks against civilians (similarly, this is why news of police attacks against civilians make news).

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#56
Messages, FaceTime, Maps - all apps that are used throughout the world for criminal purposes which endanger people and law enforcement.

This does not mean they should be pulled. Nor does the app break any local laws.

This is spin. This is putting the value of money above the value of individual freedom. This is shameful.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#57

Why is this story already off the front page? Currently 117 points in 1 hour, yet somehow behind “The Origin of the Foot Rail” with 39 points in 7 hours.

If I had to guess, the mods are bending the scoring to avoid controversial topics again. They’ve done it before with US politics. Lately there’s been a slew of China news and some of the comments have been incredibly vitriolic. I for one would support this - I like HN being a hacker’s paradise. People grousing over the latest insanity in world news can always find somewhere else to comment.

The Blizzard equivalent of this article is on Page 2 (currently #42):

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21207057

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#58

This is their Blizzard moment. So Apple are just the same as Google , Facebook and the rest of them , top please their shareholders for the almighty buck. So the lesson here is to rather use the Android platform if you want "freedom".

> So Apple are just the same as Google...

> So the lesson here is to rather use the Android platform if you want "freedom".

I doubt you're going to get much more "freedom" from a Google owned platform if you think the two companies are just as bad...unless you're prepared to root the device to hell to the point of almost replacing the OS completely.

SIDEBAR: Facebook is banned in China, partly because FB didn't want to comply with the censorship / surveillance requirements, iirc. Though someone who has more knowledge of the situation could probably clarify. Nevertheless I'm not sure why you lumped them into the actions of Apple or Google.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#59

Why is this story already off the front page? Currently 117 points in 1 hour, yet somehow behind “The Origin of the Foot Rail” with 39 points in 7 hours.

These articles are sent lower in the ranking because the mods feel they aren't very constructive

That doesn't explain other submissions on the same topic floating up and remaining on the front page. It also doesn't explain the Blizzard story being/was very active and is now only on the second page (for me) at this moment.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are pure lies, top to bottom.

And how exactly would you know that? There is a great deal of animosity towards police right now in HK. A very small minority of protestors have demonstrated willingness to apply violence, and police (including off-duty officers) have been attacked in the open on more than one occasion. So I don’t think it’s inconceivable that the availability of a crowdsourced map might increase such incidents. Of course, this is go…

One of the problems being faced in HK is that there are times when it's difficult to identify when the police are HK police, or when the police are actually Chinese military in HK uniform.

One of the signs (as it always is) is the footwear used by the officers differs between actual HK police and Chinese military forces in HK police uniform.

Another problem is that there are times when it's difficult to identify when the protestors are HK citizens, or when the protestors are Chinese military in plain clothes.

There was an incident a few weeks back where a fire was set outside Central MTR station which was reported to have been set by HK protestors. There was graffiti on the wall to this effect. The graffiti was written in simplified Chinese, which is used in the mainland. In Hong Kong, they use traditional Chinese in written communications.

The difficulty is in accurate attribution. Terrorist groups will take credit for atrocities they didn't commit because it's beneficial for them and their cause. Which then leads down the rabbit hole of asking who benefits from violence in HK? It's also worth looking at the history of protests in HK, how frequently they have occurred, and how often violence has actually erupted.

It's a country that successfully peacefully protested numerous times, to great effect.

> The way things are going, though, I don’t see how else this can go.

Fortunately, the people in HK don't share this view, and continue to protest for their rights and their freedoms. They're not giving up, they're not giving in. It's easy to be this pessimistic when you live in a western country, where peaceful protests in recent history (~20 years or so) are almost completely ineffective. When you've lived in a place where peaceful protests have historically been effective, it's a different story. Especially when it's literally your own life on the line.

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