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Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

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Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#151

Post by jhymn »

kypro wrote: post #145
newscracker wrote: post #54

As someone who has appreciated the privacy stance Apple has had and the privacy assisting steps it has taken for a long time (long before iPhone), I believe Apple is coming out to be completely hypocritical and anti-privacy/anti-freedom on this app. I cannot believe that Tim Cook and other senior executives haven't examined this deeper and taken a bold stance to let the app stay! Shame on you, Apple! Even John Gruber…

Apple only cares about privacy because it's a threat to Google and Facebook's business model. They don't care about privacy, they only care about "caring about privacy" when it is good for their business.

Right, and in marketing-speak it's called positioning. Taking a privacy stance allowed Apple to differentiate against their competitors without actually innovating.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#152

Post by song »

Does this app signal where there's police activity? Yes

Could it be used with intent to avoid police? Yes

Does it mean that it's only used with criminal intent? I don't believe so. I personally use it to avoid protests and go through my daily life.

Should you now remove Safari because it allows you to access data that would potentially help with criminal intent? What about the twitter app, lot's of messages related to protests there.

And this reinforces my decision not to switch back to ios and instead stick with Android. I don't necessarily trust Google with my privacy and I have my own reservations but at least with Android my phone is my own. I can install what I want. Even a working firewall (I like little snitch on my mac, no reason I shouldn't have something similar on my phone).

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#153

Post by roca »

tibbydudeza wrote: post #24

This is their Blizzard moment. So Apple are just the same as Google , Facebook and the rest of them , top please their shareholders for the almighty buck. So the lesson here is to rather use the Android platform if you want "freedom".

Facebook and Google are mostly banned in China already, so the CCP has little leverage over them. Apple is significantly more vulnerable to CCP pressure ... and it's showing.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#154

Post by rahkiin »

I started wondering whether Apple is playing a longer game here: - Reject the app: create media attention - Accept the app: media attention, HKers can download the app en-masse. - Then a few days later comply to the CCP and remove it from he store, but keeping it on the user devices. The app is still usable by all those that downloaded it. They did not tell the CCP that they _could_ block them on devices too.

This way HKers have the app but the Apple production chain in China is safe. (And without that chain there are no iPhones anywhere).

I just don't see why Apple would make such a major PR screwup by rejecting and THEN accepting only to reject it again. Would have been less issue if they kept it rejected all along.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#156

Post by simonh »

m0xte wrote: post #140
simonh wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has simply said it will pursue user privacy and security to the limits of what the law will allow. That is all.

What's the point when the world is legislating our privacy away? It's a pointless self-defeating marketing ploy then and nothing more.

Do you think it is ethical for a company to require it's employees to break the law?

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#157

Post by epaga »

personjerry wrote: post #130

This may be an unpopular opinion, but this is a difficult call, and we should think about both sides of Apple's decision. If the app really is being used to target, and thus endanger, certain individuals, whether or not they're law enforcement, that is problematic, and makes unclear what the right decision is. If we change the circumstances, imagine there is a new Uber-like group transportation app that helps people…

You could say the same about Google Maps completely revolutionizing the burglary "industry" with its satellite imagery and escape route calculations.

Or about Telegram/WhatsApp offering end-to-end encryption to child pornographers.

Etc. etc. - just because an app can be used to do harm should not mean it should be pulled. I think Apple's policy until now has made sense - they've pulled apps that break local laws or that are specifically designed to endanger or harm individuals. This app does neither (unlike Quartz, by the way - once China censored them, Apple needed to comply based on their own policy).

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#158

Post by _pmf_ »

song wrote: post #152

Does this app signal where there's police activity? Yes Could it be used with intent to avoid police? Yes Does it mean that it's only used with criminal intent? I don't believe so. I personally use it to avoid protests and go through my daily life. Should you now remove Safari because it allows you to access data that would potentially help with criminal intent? What about the twitter app, lot's of messages related t…

> Should you now remove Safari because it allows you to access data that would potentially help with criminal intent?

Worked for gab.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#159

Post by noisem4ker »

lilyball wrote: post #81
newscracker wrote: post #54

As someone who has appreciated the privacy stance Apple has had and the privacy assisting steps it has taken for a long time (long before iPhone), I believe Apple is coming out to be completely hypocritical and anti-privacy/anti-freedom on this app. I cannot believe that Tim Cook and other senior executives haven't examined this deeper and taken a bold stance to let the app stay! Shame on you, Apple! Even John Gruber…

I admit to being confused what this has to do with privacy.

Privacy and personal freedom go hand in hand.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#160

Post by m0xte »

simonh wrote: post #156
m0xte wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point when the world is legislating our privacy away? It's a pointless self-defeating marketing ploy then and nothing more.

Do you think it is ethical for a company to require it's employees to break the law?

It's not about breaking laws but about not having to break laws by not operating in regimes like China.
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