Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#101

Post by idlewords » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:12 AM UTC

rjf72 wrote: post #92

idlewords wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is the app is not being used for ambushing and attacking police at all, because there have been no such ambushes in Hong Kong. The few situations where Hong Kong police have been in danger have come when a small group splits off and is isolated during a protest. In no case have protesters caught the police unawares in an ambush, let alone off-duty police. By its nature, the app shows large concentrations of…

This [1] is the video of the first shooting in the Hong Kong protests - reasonably safe for life for anybody who has not seen it. Something I didn't understand when I first saw the video is how the protesters were able to do what they do. An armed group of protesters moved rapidly towards their target, and manage to ambush him around a blind corner. Their target was a single police officer that seems to have temporar…

Just look at the app. It doesn't have the spatial resolution to do this, nor does it identify individual officers, and it's got a considerable lag in real time.

Or look at the video preceding this incident, and you'll see that the officers ran ahead of their group, and the kids confronting them were not looking at their phones because they were busy trying not to get shot.

Or come and see for yourself.

Or rely on the eyewitness testimony of hundreds of journalists in Hong Kong who have seen this same situation play out—cops run out too far, get isolated, get scared, draw a sidearm.

Or figure it out from first principles on a message board.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#102

Post by indemnity » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:14 AM UTC

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #6

product50 wrote: post #2

Courage. And user privacy. Tim Cook should just resign at this point with all his hypocrisy. I don't know how he looks himself in the mirror with a straight gaze these days.

I'm willing to bet the Ultra Large Container Vessel class boat-load of money Apple is making helps there.

If they keep tanking their brand and supposed values in the West with the lack of a backbone, that pile is going to shrink, because the rest of the world is not going to pick up the slack

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#103

Post by austhrow743 » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:16 AM UTC

lilyball wrote: post #81

newscracker wrote: post #54

As someone who has appreciated the privacy stance Apple has had and the privacy assisting steps it has taken for a long time (long before iPhone), I believe Apple is coming out to be completely hypocritical and anti-privacy/anti-freedom on this app. I cannot believe that Tim Cook and other senior executives haven't examined this deeper and taken a bold stance to let the app stay! Shame on you, Apple! Even John Gruber…

I admit to being confused what this has to do with privacy.

Privacy is good. By being better for privacy than the worlds largest advertising company/consumer spy agency, Apple announced its intent to be for all that is good in the world. That it's a shining beacon of morality. Protector of Italian virginity.

China is bad. By capitulating to them after having declared themselves the enforcer of all that is good and holy, Apple has thus committed hypocrisy.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#104

Post by m0xte » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:22 AM UTC

The privacy stance is just marketing. They have handed over iCloud keys and data to the state in China already. If they cared about privacy over market dominance that wouldn’t have happened.

Unfortunately as an iOS user tied to the ecosystem this puts me in a difficult situation ethically speaking. I am sponsoring this.

Perhaps I should stop buying into corporate marketing ideologies. Got burned by that before (Microsoft))

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#105

Post by dang » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:22 AM UTC

newscracker wrote: post #59

rubatuga wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These articles are sent lower in the ranking because the mods feel they aren't very constructive

That doesn't explain other submissions on the same topic floating up and remaining on the front page. It also doesn't explain the Blizzard story being/was very active and is now only on the second page (for me) at this moment.

There's no "the" Blizzard story—there has been a blizzard of them. The main one was the #1 story on HN yesterday by quite a lot: https://news.ycombinator.com/front?day=2019-10-08. As I explained upthread, we tend to downweight follow-up stories unless they contain significant new information. More explanation on that: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#106

Post by imihai1988 » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:23 AM UTC

nneonneo wrote: post #40

potatofarmer45 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then by the same logic, WeChat should be banned since it's clearly documented to be used by Chinese Trolls to attack protesters in Australia and Canada.

If WeChat’s primary purpose was to track protestors overseas, then yeah, it should be banned. But that’s not what the app does. I want to be clear that I’m not trying to side with anyone here - I’m just calling out a knee-jerk response that I don’t believe is actually based in fact. If there’s good evidence that Apple or the HK government is inventing evidence of misuse, I’ll happily take back what I’ve said.

Isn't Waze also displaying police forces ? Also by croudsourcing information ? Why is Apple not looking into that ?

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#107

Post by baq » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:23 AM UTC

nneonneo wrote: post #40

potatofarmer45 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then by the same logic, WeChat should be banned since it's clearly documented to be used by Chinese Trolls to attack protesters in Australia and Canada.

If WeChat’s primary purpose was to track protestors overseas, then yeah, it should be banned. But that’s not what the app does. I want to be clear that I’m not trying to side with anyone here - I’m just calling out a knee-jerk response that I don’t believe is actually based in fact. If there’s good evidence that Apple or the HK government is inventing evidence of misuse, I’ll happily take back what I’ve said.

My east european country has been governed by authoritarian rule which was 95% dependent on a totalitarian foreign nation state. You either don't understand what this means or are actively protecting a totalitarian dictatorship.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#108

Post by dna_polymerase » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:24 AM UTC

Oh boy, they would have lynched Tim Cook for loosing China market access over some freedom bullshit in Hong Kong.

No seriously, anybody surprised with Apple's reaction? Next time you see Apple's privacy marketing keep this in mind. They will sell your privacy as soon as their profits depend on it.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#109

Post by neighbour » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:24 AM UTC

m0xte wrote: post #104

The privacy stance is just marketing. They have handed over iCloud keys and data to the state in China already. If they cared about privacy over market dominance that wouldn’t have happened. Unfortunately as an iOS user tied to the ecosystem this puts me in a difficult situation ethically speaking. I am sponsoring this. Perhaps I should stop buying into corporate marketing ideologies. Got burned by that before (Micro…

I have seen this posted before. Can you link me to the proof? Genuinely curious.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#110

Post by bigpumpkin » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:25 AM UTC

newscracker wrote: post #54

As someone who has appreciated the privacy stance Apple has had and the privacy assisting steps it has taken for a long time (long before iPhone), I believe Apple is coming out to be completely hypocritical and anti-privacy/anti-freedom on this app. I cannot believe that Tim Cook and other senior executives haven't examined this deeper and taken a bold stance to let the app stay! Shame on you, Apple! Even John Gruber…

Definitely agree. Privacy is protected by this app. By knowing the physical locations of the police, protesters can evade these anti-privacy forces.