Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#91

Post by rdlecler1 » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:05 AM UTC

toomim wrote: post #79

ewoodrich wrote: post #3

From NBC News reporter @DylanByers on Twitter: “We created the App Store to be a safe and trusted place to discover apps. We have learned that an app, HKmap.live, has been used in ways that endanger law enforcement and residents in Hong Kong. Many concerned customers in Hong Kong have contacted us about this app and we immediately began investigating it. The app displays police locations and we have verified with the…

This rationale focuses on how the app has been used , rather than what it does , which could apply equally well to any text messaging or web browser app that is used illegally. Imagine if this said: > We have learned that an app, iMessage, has been used in ways that endanger law enforcement and residents in Hong Kong. Many concerned customers in Hong Kong have contacted us about this app and we immediately began inve…

Exactly, by that account, they should remove encryption on iMessage so that police can access it.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#92

Post by rjf72 » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:05 AM UTC

idlewords wrote: post #82

wutbrodo wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm as sympathetic to the protests as anyone and I'm definitely not used to defending Apple's behavior, but are we sure that this is spin? Undoubtedly the app is being used for more than just "ambushing and attacking police". But absent a firm belief that this reason from the Chinese government is bullshit, it's actually a pretty tall order (and questionably ethical) for a corporation to push back against a govt dema…

The point is the app is not being used for ambushing and attacking police at all, because there have been no such ambushes in Hong Kong. The few situations where Hong Kong police have been in danger have come when a small group splits off and is isolated during a protest. In no case have protesters caught the police unawares in an ambush, let alone off-duty police. By its nature, the app shows large concentrations of…

This [1] is the video of the first shooting in the Hong Kong protests - reasonably safe for life for anybody who has not seen it. Something I didn't understand when I first saw the video is how the protesters were able to do what they do. An armed group of protesters moved rapidly towards their target, and manage to ambush him around a blind corner. Their target was a single police officer that seems to have temporarily become separated from other officers. The protesters seemed to know this and all immediately set upon him.

You could make an argument that somehow they used some other technology to carry out their attack, but I'm not sure how much weight it'd have beyond the fact that no we don't have video (to my knowledge) of one of those guys explicitly opening and looking at the app to find the target. In any case, it certainly refutes the argument that no protesters have managed to catch the police by surprise or ambush them - because that is exactly what happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN4MvOrPotk

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#93

Post by dang » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:06 AM UTC

belltaco wrote: post #72

epaga wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably 1. flagged by a number of Chinese users and 2. auto-detected as “controversial” which often are more noise than signal. I hope this is manually set as an exception. This is an extremely important topic in the tech world and needs to be discussed.

Could be Apple fans flagging it too, but usually I see negative Google stories get flagged off really fast.

Everyone sees stories they prefer getting flagged really fast and stories they dislike hanging around. This is a mechanical consequence of HN's frontpage space being so limited, combined with the human tendency to pay more attention to negatives.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#94

Post by powerapple » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:06 AM UTC

oarsinsync wrote: post #60

nneonneo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how exactly would you know that? There is a great deal of animosity towards police right now in HK. A very small minority of protestors have demonstrated willingness to apply violence, and police (including off-duty officers) have been attacked in the open on more than one occasion. So I don’t think it’s inconceivable that the availability of a crowdsourced map might increase such incidents. Of course, this is go…

One of the problems being faced in HK is that there are times when it's difficult to identify when the police are HK police, or when the police are actually Chinese military in HK uniform. One of the signs (as it always is) is the footwear used by the officers differs between actual HK police and Chinese military forces in HK police uniform. Another problem is that there are times when it's difficult to identify when…

lol. HK police and protests are staying at home watching tvs, there are just mainlanders on street both damaging properties and arresting themselves.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#95

Post by dang » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:07 AM UTC

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #57

nneonneo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I had to guess, the mods are bending the scoring to avoid controversial topics again. They’ve done it before with US politics. Lately there’s been a slew of China news and some of the comments have been incredibly vitriolic. I for one would support this - I like HN being a hacker’s paradise. People grousing over the latest insanity in world news can always find somewhere else to comment.

The Blizzard equivalent of this article is on Page 2 (currently #42): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21207057

That's a follow-up. The primary Blizzard story was the #1 story on HN yesterday.

https://news.ycombinator.com/front?day=2019-10-08

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#96

Post by dang » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:08 AM UTC

epaga wrote: post #49

hamandcheese wrote: post #41

Why is this story already off the front page? Currently 117 points in 1 hour, yet somehow behind “The Origin of the Foot Rail” with 39 points in 7 hours.

Probably 1. flagged by a number of Chinese users and 2. auto-detected as “controversial” which often are more noise than signal. I hope this is manually set as an exception. This is an extremely important topic in the tech world and needs to be discussed.

Yes, we've manually set this as an exception. The problem is that we can't set every story as exception, or even every important story. So the complaint—"why is X, which is important, off the front page with massive points while Y, which is trivial, is on the front page with pathetic points?"—will ever be with us.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#97

Post by Rebelgecko » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:11 AM UTC

ewoodrich wrote: post #3

From NBC News reporter @DylanByers on Twitter: “We created the App Store to be a safe and trusted place to discover apps. We have learned that an app, HKmap.live, has been used in ways that endanger law enforcement and residents in Hong Kong. Many concerned customers in Hong Kong have contacted us about this app and we immediately began investigating it. The app displays police locations and we have verified with the…

Will Apple also be taking down Waze and Facebook?

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#98

Post by tyfon » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:12 AM UTC

wutbrodo wrote: post #74

bstar77 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is some incredible spin.

I'm as sympathetic to the protests as anyone and I'm definitely not used to defending Apple's behavior, but are we sure that this is spin? Undoubtedly the app is being used for more than just "ambushing and attacking police". But absent a firm belief that this reason from the Chinese government is bullshit, it's actually a pretty tall order (and questionably ethical) for a corporation to push back against a govt dema…

They might as well remove the web browser and any other form of communication capable apps then since they might be used for the same purposes.

Apple has shown incredible little spine in relation to china, probably because they are 100% dependent on them to make their phones.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#99

Post by indemnity » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:12 AM UTC

edwincheese wrote: post #8

gigatexal wrote: post #5

Didn’t they add it back just recently?

They just decided to take it down again after the People's Daily wrote about it.

Quite disappointing to see that Apple has absolutely no spine when it counts, only when they are risking nothing.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#100

Post by JMTQp8lwXL » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:12 AM UTC

__m wrote: post #75

hamandcheese wrote: post #41

Why is this story already off the front page? Currently 117 points in 1 hour, yet somehow behind “The Origin of the Foot Rail” with 39 points in 7 hours.

> Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That destroys intellectual curiosity, the value of the site.

It doesn't appear there's much battling here. It seems to be nearly unanimous opposition to Apple's decision. Ideological battle seems to imply two competing and popular opinions.

We rarely classify things that are bi-partisan as political. And Blizzard (which carries a substantially analogous version of events) has been condemned for their actions from Democrats and Republicans alike.