Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#211

Post by azernik » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 10:43 PM UTC

sachdevap wrote: post #120

azernik wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very large scale, just not in the exact form GP is describing; instead, farmers drop stationary internet-connected sensors all over their fields, their sampling equipment GPS-tags results from every core sample, and tractors have computer-controlled equipment to feed location and quantity information to chemical dispensers. See e.g. https://home.agrian.com/what-we-do/ for a company that manages this process.

I am not at all denying the benefits of technology, or that companies are working in it, but I am skeptical of how widespread it is right now. Therefore, I would want to see some numbers to verify such a claim.

I know that there is a profitable company whose people I have talked with, whose business is built on managing the data involved.

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#212

Post by dsfyu404ed » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 10:43 PM UTC

CharlesColeman wrote: post #181

breakbread wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In the EU, shops are required to display the price per , i. e. all coffees have a (usually smaller, but readable) Euro/500g price. Grocery stores in the US do this, but it's not something you necessarily see in food service shops.

> Grocery stores in the US do this, but it's not something you necessarily see in food service shops. They do an absolute shit job of it, because there are no standards or regulations. Most times I see this, similar items next to each other on the shelf are using different "standard" units making comparison impossible (e.g. price per ounce vs. price per piece). I've even seen two sizes of the same brand/product use d…

You're being way over dramatic. 99% of the time the unit makes sense and is the same for comparable products.

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#213

Post by icebraining » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 10:51 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #174

Consultant32452 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested in your thoughts on one public policy example of this. Back when AIDS first hit, the community of scientists and public policy makers said that while it was starting in the gay and drug community any moment it would hop into the general population. They knew this was a lie, but told us this because they didn't believe Americans would spend money helping gays and junkies. I've come to understand that to…

Thank you for saying that. Conditioning on this being accurate information, I just lost that much trust in the community of scientists. This is how "hacking" the public policymaking fucks up society. And then people are surprised antivaxxers are a thing. They are a thing because we're all being constantly manipulated, and some people just don't have the capacity or patience to separate the truth from bullshit.

How can one even lose trust in "the community of scientists"? It's such a vague concept.

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#214

Post by uoaei » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 10:52 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #212

CharlesColeman wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Grocery stores in the US do this, but it's not something you necessarily see in food service shops. They do an absolute shit job of it, because there are no standards or regulations. Most times I see this, similar items next to each other on the shelf are using different "standard" units making comparison impossible (e.g. price per ounce vs. price per piece). I've even seen two sizes of the same brand/product use d…

You're being way over dramatic. 99% of the time the unit makes sense and is the same for comparable products.

That may be your experience based on what you shop for and where you do it.

America is way behind Europe on this. 99% of the time I go to Safeway, I have to bring out my calculator because the reference volume/weight is different from the other items on the same shelf.

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#215

Post by swiley » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 11:00 PM UTC

Americans are flat out doing less. We move stuff around, tell people what to do in other countries, and write software and that’s kind of it.

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#216

Post by ramphastidae » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 11:00 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #166

anon1m0us wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess what I am learning about myself lately is that I have the power to lie to people and convince them to do things they don't want to do or don't know better. People know this about me. They know it almost instantly. I sense it in them. I sense the same about other people. They have that power over me. However, I make an effort not to. Or, when I do, I work especially hard to steer them in the direction of their…

I stand with you here. I recognized something like this myself - I phrase it as "I want to live in a world of cooperation, of win-win deals", but there are still people who prefer to exploit others, play "win-lose" games. That's why I despise the advertising industry so much. They're all playing win-lose games with society, and the collateral damage slowly eats at the base of what keeps our societies together.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#217

Post by TeMPOraL » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 11:01 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #213

TeMPOraL wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for saying that. Conditioning on this being accurate information, I just lost that much trust in the community of scientists. This is how "hacking" the public policymaking fucks up society. And then people are surprised antivaxxers are a thing. They are a thing because we're all being constantly manipulated, and some people just don't have the capacity or patience to separate the truth from bullshit.

How can one even lose trust in "the community of scientists"? It's such a vague concept.

WRT. "the community of scientists", I was just parroting the expression the comment I replied to used. I primarily meant medical reporting and its public policy implications.

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#218

Post by syshum » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 11:03 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #212

CharlesColeman wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Grocery stores in the US do this, but it's not something you necessarily see in food service shops. They do an absolute shit job of it, because there are no standards or regulations. Most times I see this, similar items next to each other on the shelf are using different "standard" units making comparison impossible (e.g. price per ounce vs. price per piece). I've even seen two sizes of the same brand/product use d…

You're being way over dramatic. 99% of the time the unit makes sense and is the same for comparable products.

Even with in the exact same product but different sizes I seem them use different units to make to hard to figure out which size provides the best value

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#219

Post by goatlover » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 11:03 PM UTC

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #121

LoSboccacc wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its nice to see this reality (of how extrapolating is bad because things change) ...but when they do that same thing on earth temperature everyone loses his mind

The heat-trapping behaviour of CO_2 was first accurately measured in the 19th century, and all climate change models do actually predict convergence, not linear rise. It's just that the point of convergence is not one compatible with civilisation as we know it.

How does anyone know what temperature rise is or isn't compatible with civilization as we know it, within the range of predicted temperature rises? One of the problems is that civilization is dynamic. New technologies come along, people change their habits, etc.

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#220

Post by JMTQp8lwXL » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 11:15 PM UTC

evunveot wrote: post #104

lkrubner wrote: post #32

Wages have been mostly flat, so consumers have no extra money to engage in additional buying. Since the Great Recession of 2008, the top 1% of the income distribution have absorbed 125% of productivity gains. This is the reverse of what we saw in the 1940s and 1950s and 1960s when strong labor unions were able to win 110% of productivity for workers, so that the share of national income going to labor increased. Now…

> Wages have been mostly flat, so consumers have no extra money to engage in additional buying. Check out [1] and scroll down to Table A-7 (it's an Excel file). It's the real earnings data (in 2018 dollars), by gender, from 1960 to 2018 (though it's kind of spotty before 1967). What sticks out to me: * For men (looking at Total Workers), real earnings are currently around 10% higher than they were in the 70s (moving…

Women didn't work as many hours back then. A lot of career options weren't possibilities then, either. Women's earning increases are largely attributable to cultural changes.