171–180 of 217 posts
>“Providing a gateway for ‘toxic apps’ is hurting the feelings of the Chinese people, twisting the facts of Hong Kong affairs, and against the views and principles of the Chinese people,”
It's a way to say something is bad without saying anything about it.
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So that long paragraph was essentially saying... protesters should ask more nicely? You should have saved your words. Quiet, non-offensive protests do not work. Large-scale, massive protests that disrupt society have a chance of working. I also don't think it's reasonable to expect that police tear gas protesters and shoot them in the face with rubber pullets and expect zero acts in return - especially since one of t…
>protesters should ask more nicely? The protesters have never asked nicely. The history of HK protests post handover has been couched in nativism bigotry against mainland China, the very audience they should be trying to win over. If their problem was the Chinese government, they wouldn't be targeting mainland people and their businesses. Whatever little effort they made to reach out was framed in "support us because…
You mean the same China that just cancelled the NBA playoff broadcasts because a single NBA GM tweeted support for HK? https://www.foxbusiness.com/sports/nba-china-revenue-busines... The same China that does not even allow the emoji for Taiwan? https://qz.com/1723334/apple-removes-taiwan-flag-emoji-in-ho...
Why indeed would they ask China to help Taiwan - China has made it incredibly obvious they do not recognize Taiwan.
Considering China's past (hello Tiananmen Square) there is a history of violent suppression of dissident thought or political opinion. The first demand of the protesters is literally "Full withdrawal of the extradition bill" - where do you think they would be extradited to?
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> I'll give you another video about Hong Kong protesters for a different perspective The video shows one person being frustrated that a road is blocked by protesters: "if you kill people, set fires, I don't care. But you're blocking the road." I'm sure if you look at any protest throughout history, you could find an anecdote of someone being inconvenienced by it.
But do you see how the protesters treated this old lady? Pointing lasers at her eyes. Giving her the Chinese flag to make her look pro China. You still only seem to see how frustrated this lady was being while ignoring the behaviors by the protestors in this case
She also fundamentally does not get how protesting works. "Tell me, why do you people need to block the road?", she asks. Because if you sit in a corner and protest where no one can see you, and it doesn't affect anyone's day in the least, you're completely ineffective. It's not great that random people have a harder day because of that, but as a protester, you need to occupy space in a way that causes problems, or you aren't taken seriously. It's a shame that's how it has to be, but that's how it is.
And beyond that, she's just lying and treating them poorly: accusing them of throwing things at her when they aren't, saying that they're armed when they aren't, claiming they want to beat her to death when they don't, and just overall acting completely irrationally. She even tells them that she doesn't care if they set fires and kill people, but just don't block the road. Even if she's being hyperbolic, that's a really shitty thing to say. Then she starts acting condescending, calling them kids who don't know what they're doing. Meanwhile, the "kids" just take it all, offering the truth in response, and she just ignores them and gets more agitated.
Meanwhile, her only real complaint is that "the road is blocked". My sympathy for her is basically zero. I only watched the first few minutes of the video because of how utterly annoying and unreasonable I found her to be.
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Like you said, nobody is born with an opinion. Same questions you asked above can be asked of Americans. Democracy != Good and Communism != Bad Things aren't as black and white as people make it out to be. Now, I'll tell you I'm Chinese, but I've been in the US for almost ten years now. I've seen perspectives from both sides and the truth is far from what western media tells you. The unfortunate problem is the langua…
You're of course entitled to your opinion on the HK protests, but I don't think that's what people are looking for. You're just one random person on the internet. What I think we're interested in is figuring out what public sentiment actually is, and what's causing it. For example, is it that most Chinese people are genuinely, organically outraged? Or is it a small, vocal minority that is being amplified by state med…
To address your first point: are most people genuinely outraged? That I do not know tbh. I can only represent my own opinion. However, I have Chinese friends that have voices their discontent with the NBA and Hong Kong situation. That's all I can tell. For me personally, I'm against Hong Kong protest, but again, it's my own opinion.
About the news reports in China, ofc they are biased. Most if not all media are biased imo. But that doesn't mean you can't get information out of it. By getting your news from multiple sources and cross checking, you can be more confident in your judgement. By multiple sources I don't mean from CNN, Fox, etc., I mean sources from China, US, Europe and all other places. This again brings me to the language barrier point. It's hard for you to access the Chinese media without it being translated and presented to you, that I don't know how you can solve.
For the media being controlled by the government point, I'd like to agree on the Chinese part. The US media tho, while they seem to be saying what they want to say, sometimes it's not true. Case in point: https://youtu.be/yUGPIeE9kMc
About censoring, I'm not denying Chinese social media is heavily censored. However, I find the situation in western forums and social media are rather interesting. Whenever people post anything neutral/good about China, they get bashed and down voted to oblivion. People call them wumao/50 cents to ignore their opinions. Just my observations. Maybe there's a name for it, but I think it's a different form of censorship, but I could be wrong.
Again, I appreciate your response. I don't know why I'm getting down voted. Just because I hold a different view or something else?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>protesters should ask more nicely? The protesters have never asked nicely. The history of HK protests post handover has been couched in nativism bigotry against mainland China, the very audience they should be trying to win over. If their problem was the Chinese government, they wouldn't be targeting mainland people and their businesses. Whatever little effort they made to reach out was framed in "support us because…
"Ever considered why no one ever had the idea of waving the Chinese flag and petitioning the Chinese for change?" You mean the same China that just cancelled the NBA playoff broadcasts because a single NBA GM tweeted support for HK? https://www.foxbusiness.com/sports/nba-china-revenue-busines... The same China that does not even allow the emoji for Taiwan? https://qz.com/1723334/apple-removes-taiwan-flag-emoji-in-ho.…
At the end of the day, HK fate is decided by appeasing to China not the west. If you're going to wave the Chinese equivalent of alt right symbolism and violently target mainlanders, they will be treated accordingly. Which btw by all objective metrics have been exceedingly restraint for protests its size. The point is, don't pretend this was a well intented or peaceful protest, anyone who understands the subtext knows it's anything but.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're of course entitled to your opinion on the HK protests, but I don't think that's what people are looking for. You're just one random person on the internet. What I think we're interested in is figuring out what public sentiment actually is, and what's causing it. For example, is it that most Chinese people are genuinely, organically outraged? Or is it a small, vocal minority that is being amplified by state med…
I appreciate your level-headed response. To address your first point: are most people genuinely outraged? That I do not know tbh. I can only represent my own opinion. However, I have Chinese friends that have voices their discontent with the NBA and Hong Kong situation. That's all I can tell. For me personally, I'm against Hong Kong protest, but again, it's my own opinion. About the news reports in China, ofc they ar…
Any means of propagating information is directly and heavily censored by the government itself in China, as you yourself readily acknowledge. There are well known, open, severe criminal penalties for failure to comply. This applies not only to media outlets, but even to ordinary people posting personal opinions on the internet. None of this is hidden or controversial.
Categorically, nothing remotely similar to that use of "widespread coercive criminal penalties to control the spread of information, as a government sponsored social control apparatus" exists in the west. (This does not imply anything about the status of biases existing or not existing in western media. That is a logically unrelated issue.)
It is not a question of different degrees or forms of what's basically the same thing; it is two totally different structures: one system uses the state's monopoly on the use of violence to directly and openly enforce and restrict the spread of information. The other system explicitly prohibits this.
What the moral goodness of each structure may be is a seperate question. What is objectively clear, though, is that their respective moral analyses must necessarily be wholly differently conducted, since they are structurally different at the most basic level. There is no possible moral equivalency.
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I agree with what you said. And the point of my previous post is trying to say that I'm not posting on Weibo and I'm not censored, yet I still have the similar sentiment that people who do post on Weibo have, tho not as extreme.
You have a similar sentiment to what is permitted to be displayed on Weibo. As we have agreed, there is strong censorship on Weibo. Do you believe that pro Hong Kong protester posts would be permitted by that censorship? Clearly there is a strong anti Hong Kong protester reaction on Weibo. But with the heavy censorship we have no idea what percentage of the Chinese population might have a different view.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Like you said, nobody is born with an opinion. Same questions you asked above can be asked of Americans. Democracy != Good and Communism != Bad Things aren't as black and white as people make it out to be. Now, I'll tell you I'm Chinese, but I've been in the US for almost ten years now. I've seen perspectives from both sides and the truth is far from what western media tells you. The unfortunate problem is the langua…
You're of course entitled to your opinion on the HK protests, but I don't think that's what people are looking for. You're just one random person on the internet. What I think we're interested in is figuring out what public sentiment actually is, and what's causing it. For example, is it that most Chinese people are genuinely, organically outraged? Or is it a small, vocal minority that is being amplified by state med…
I was told that people who live near HK can get HK TV and radio, which carries substantially the same news information about the protests as in western media, and this group has a variety of opinions.
Outside that area immediately adjacent to HK, I was told around 80% of people are unaware that protests are happening in HK at all, and most of the other 20% believe the protests are a western plot to undermine Chinese sovereignty.
I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this information, of course. It's one data point from one person.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The unfortunate part is not WHAT the protesters are asking, it is about HOW the protesters are asking. For those who were only watching from the western mainstream media, you are missing out on some footage of the whole picture. E.g) You may have seen police beating up protesters, but you were not told that police were beaten by surprise from behind. You may have seen police fire warning shot with lethal weapon, but…
they had perhaps the best teachers in how to do revolutions and propaganda in the world, so they're doing what works. the problem with what you say is that it is not backed up by sources and yeah i don't speak Cantonese nor Mandarin. the CCP doesn't care about their citizens enough to defend them in the way you do, i guess that's because they'd have to admit that there's anything worth talking about going on if they…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_9elA4YTKU&list=WL&index=10... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms5RHsSR50I&list=WL&index=10... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGP78BMboWc&list=WL&index=10... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Es3zNcbCBs&list=WL&index=99... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xmxW0RAqT8&list=WL&index=96... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KlpDIvljNM&list=WL&index=94... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRdXjsGlh2s&list=WL&index=93... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgo8AJ84SFY&list=WL&index=92... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gACHVcOA1xc&list=WL&index=90... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AmFZQc57G0&list=WL&index=88... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaNunaVVSQM&list=WL&index=87... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIC2kRA-P58&list=WL&index=86... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG8aF4o37Zg&list=WL&index=80... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOYEv6phLGA&list=WL&index=79... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk4P1oeItOA&list=WL&index=76... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8a6IevQsjo&list=WL&index=75... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RCjnBSGvfY&list=WL&index=74... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q-7aW0WR9w&list=WL&index=73... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q-7aW0WR9w&list=WL&index=73... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuyYVJH6ARM&list=WL&index=72... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qCoFKpmMHk&list=WL&index=67... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMKkQs81PgE&list=WL&index=63... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRDZZyHCP8A&list=WL&index=54... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CE-lPakRVM&list=WL&index=53... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUnapSWRV8w&list=WL&index=47... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl5am0fuex8&list=WL&index=42... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwVX_T9NMJ0&list=WL&index=39... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEA92KPpgcM&list=WL&index=41... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwVX_T9NMJ0&list=WL&index=39... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIau2kwxzZA&list=WL&index=38... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDcfwLna7kw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btm6NrOpmo4&t=13s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdyCyJhb7Ww
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"Ever considered why no one ever had the idea of waving the Chinese flag and petitioning the Chinese for change?" You mean the same China that just cancelled the NBA playoff broadcasts because a single NBA GM tweeted support for HK? https://www.foxbusiness.com/sports/nba-china-revenue-busines... The same China that does not even allow the emoji for Taiwan? https://qz.com/1723334/apple-removes-taiwan-flag-emoji-in-ho.…
Insert list of western atrocities etc etc. At the end of the day, HK fate is decided by appeasing to China not the west. If you're going to wave the Chinese equivalent of alt right symbolism and violently target mainlanders, they will be treated accordingly. Which btw by all objective metrics have been exceedingly restraint for protests its size. The point is, don't pretend this was a well intented or peaceful protes…
2. It's an incredibly bad argument that HK should be trying to peacefully win over China to their cause given that China has made it absolutely clear that they do not recognize HK.
3. "If you're going to wave the Chinese equivalent of alt right symbolism and violently target mainlanders, they will be treated accordingly." Is there a 'Worst of HN' I can submit this to? I haven't seen someone so bravely defend fascist police brutality in quite awhile.