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macOS 10.15 Vista

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Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#161

Post by dijit »

elSidCampeador wrote: post #154
Beefpro9 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As of Catalina, Apple has switched the default shell to zsh and nags you when you launch bash. That said... I agree. Between this, the abysmal keyboard failure rate, and some of the user-hostile choices they've made, I've switched to a Razer laptop. Windows 10 Pro lets you avoid most of the jank, by the way. But, I'm only on it as an eventual migration path to something running XFCE (my favorite wm due to its out of…

Wait what? Why/when did they do this?

What are you asking?

Why/When MacOS transitioned to zsh?

Why; because bash became GPLv3 at some point in history and MacOS couldn’t update their version of bash. (The last GPLv2 version).

When; was catalina (just released)

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#162

Post by jzl »

In case anyone needs a history lesson, here's a good refresher: https://www.networkworld.com/article/2277550/microsoft-to-im...

"UAC was created with the intention of putting you in control of your system, reducing cost of ownership over time and improving the software ecosystem," according to the post, which is attributed to Ben Fathi, corporate vice president of development for Microsoft's Windows Core Operating System Division. "What we've learned is that we only got part of the way there in Vista and some folks think we accomplished the opposite."

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#163

Post by ohazi »

zamalek wrote: post #157
ohazi wrote: post #123

Maybe we should be angry? Apple has been neglecting OS X since Snow Leopard, thinking that iOS is the only thing worth investing in. Microsoft apparently agrees -- they chopped up the Windows team last year, pushing out the Windows chief and dumping the remaining re-orged husk under Azure. Just for security reasons alone, it should be terrifying that there isn't a standalone Windows group anymore. Windows hasn't been…

> the current monstrosity literally requires you to let it reboot itself on a 9-5 schedule. * the previous monstrosity. Windows will now let you carry on without updating until seriously important security updates are a month old. They really do have to force the hand of ignorant users eventually, else Microsoft gets blamed for an insecure OS. I also don't understand where you get the idea that msft doesn't care abou…

I guess I'm behind the times. Is the Candy Crush installer still in the Start menu? Do they still randomly revert telemetry settings on updates? What was that thing I read last week about no more local user accounts? Maybe all of these things have little asterisks on them, but at this point I don't care anymore.

Chrome and Firefox are also noticeably faster on Linux than on a fresh Windows install on the same machine. Don't know WTF is up with that, but this has been consistent for years.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#164

Post by wyclif »

deltron3030 wrote: post #156
ashishb wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WiFi, battery, and sleep. Have these problems been fixed with Linux on laptops?

Depends on the hardware manufacturer. But if you're a regular laptop user the bigger issue is trackpad feel, if you're used to Apple devices or the new Windows drivers for trackpads, it's not acceptable. You're better off switching the way you work to using a window manager and shortcuts, like most hardcore linux users do at some point.

I really wouldn't want to use a Linux laptop for work unless I had a WM installed like i3 or dwm, so I could completely ignore the awful trackpad. Apple may be bad at some things, but trackpads are not one of those things.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#165

Post by lovelyviking »

ericd wrote: post #141
asdff wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as I've read this comment, I got a 60 second restart countdown notification for untold software updates. Like what if I got up to do something found all my shit locked up behind an update that to date cannot report an accurate timeframe (why bother reporting one at all if they haven't been right since my first mac with tiger). I'm not even on catalina yet, so maybe that's it. I don't know what's with microsoft a…

Haha I guess that was bound to happen, given the number of HNers. I don't remember the last time I saw that one, though, whereas my Windows box is always trying to restart itself (despite frequently succeeding). I'm currently beating back iCloud notifications. Man, I miss Snow Leopard. I think that was peak OS X for me.

Miss Snow Leopard too, last sane release ... everything was in a much better balance and care. I keep it in one machine as reference point to make sure I am writing good apps.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#166

Post by robin_reala »

lovelyviking wrote: post #160
robin_reala wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The notification is thrown at the point of need. Some will appear when the application is first started, but some will only appear if the app is directed to a specific state by the user.

Still you can direct user to one list of apps/permissions each time those needs to be tuned, where user can review all permissions associated with particular app and decide whether to turn them on or off. How can you do that with endless dialogs and how can you review what you've allowed later, after dialog disappeared ...

You can review later by going to System Preferences / Security & Privacy / Privacy, then looking at the various permissions to see what apps have been allowed.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#167

Post by draugadrotten »

mathemagics wrote: post #47
etchalon wrote: post #3

I understand this is chaos, but it's chaos because it has to be. There's no way to move users from an world of opaque "if it's an application, it can do anything it wants" to a world of "applications should ask me when they want to do something" transparency. The idea that Apple doesn't care about the Mac because it's trying to explicitly improve our privacy and security is … weird.

Agree that it is overall an improved experience. After upgrading, I discovered that a VPN app wanted access to my Documents folder. No reason it would need that, so I simply denied it. Lo and behold, the app continues to work just fine as expected. IMO, this alone is a big reason to upgrade to Catalina.

So what you are saying is that you don't trust the application to access your Documents folder, but you trust it with creating a VPN tunnel to keep your network traffic safe?

uhmm....

To me, it seems that if the Documents permission dialogue in fact caught the app doing anything bad, it should remove all trust for the app and the developer. It's all or nothing, really.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#168

Post by comex »

charredbacon wrote: post #82
etchalon wrote: post #3

I understand this is chaos, but it's chaos because it has to be. There's no way to move users from an world of opaque "if it's an application, it can do anything it wants" to a world of "applications should ask me when they want to do something" transparency. The idea that Apple doesn't care about the Mac because it's trying to explicitly improve our privacy and security is … weird.

I disagree that there's no transition. This looks like a pretty good alternative: https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/bparno/papers/user-driven.pd... Instead of the OS displaying an annoying prompt when the application tries to use a privilege, the application embeds an OS-drawn access control gadget inside its UI, such that the user interacting with the UI grants the privilege.

macOS does something similar already for file open/save dialogs: they’re drawn by a trusted OS component instead of directly by the app, and the user’s act of selecting a file grants the app permission to access that file without an additional dialog.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#169

Post by ohazi »

November-Echo wrote: post #158
ohazi wrote: post #123

Maybe we should be angry? Apple has been neglecting OS X since Snow Leopard, thinking that iOS is the only thing worth investing in. Microsoft apparently agrees -- they chopped up the Windows team last year, pushing out the Windows chief and dumping the remaining re-orged husk under Azure. Just for security reasons alone, it should be terrifying that there isn't a standalone Windows group anymore. Windows hasn't been…

About the bash thing: Apple isn’t allowed to ship a newer version due to licensing problems. That’s also the reason why they switched to zsh [1]. [1]: https://thenextweb.com/dd/2019/06/04/why-does-macos-catalina...

Yeah, I know. It's not just bash, it's a lot of their other userland tools too. It was sort of funny at first, and you can update them with homebrew and usually not break things, but at the end of the day... this is Apple's licensing problem, and yet I have to deal with it. That's stupid! I have scripts that run perfectly on my servers... why should I have to be a contortionist to test them locally?

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#170

Post by misterdata »

charredbacon wrote: post #82
etchalon wrote: post #3

I understand this is chaos, but it's chaos because it has to be. There's no way to move users from an world of opaque "if it's an application, it can do anything it wants" to a world of "applications should ask me when they want to do something" transparency. The idea that Apple doesn't care about the Mac because it's trying to explicitly improve our privacy and security is … weird.

I disagree that there's no transition. This looks like a pretty good alternative: https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/bparno/papers/user-driven.pd... Instead of the OS displaying an annoying prompt when the application tries to use a privilege, the application embeds an OS-drawn access control gadget inside its UI, such that the user interacting with the UI grants the privilege.

Actually not far from how it works on macOS. Usage of a system "open file" dialog automatically creates a permission for the application to access that file from inside its container.

https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Se... (search for "Powerbox")

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