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Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

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Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#741

A lot of comments here seem to take as a given that banning any offensive speech in any forum leads inexorably to situations like this, where the "offensive speech" is political speech offensive to an authoritarian government. But this implies that it's impossible to distinguish between different kinds of "offensive" speech based on any meaningful criteria whatsoever, and this just seems to be fundamentally incorrect…

The actual principle which corporations apply is, "We should censor whoever it makes the most money to censor." Starting from the assumption that companies are operating on ethics at all means we're wrong right from the beginning. Hypothetically there exists an ethical way to censor, but where that falls apart is when you give that decision to ethics-blind corporations.

You should check out Schelling Fences on Slippery Slopes[1], particularly the section "Coalitions of Resistance".

There's also a separate disagreement which I have here, which is whether silencing people is actually an effective way to create change. It takes enormous resources even for governments to enforce it effectively, as we've seen with Nazis and the USSR in the past, and with China now. With bigots, censorship on other platforms has driven them together into some real cesspool platforms such as Voat[2]. I know for myself, having grown up in a homophobic environment, that the only thing that changed my mind about gay people was meeting and talking to gay people--a strategy which was explicitly executed by Harvey Milk in his coming out campaigns. Censoring bigots does the opposite: it drives bigots into echo chambers where they will only ever converse with other bigots who reinforce their views. In short: if you're censoring bigots, you aren't addressing bigotry, you're just sweeping it under the rug so you don't have to see it.

[1] https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/Kbm6QnJv9dgWsPHQP/schelling-...

[2] https://voat.co

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#742
post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why that YouTube video requires age verification. As far as I know that prevents it from being played to anyone not logged in, including embeds, and severely limits people from seeing it. Social media flagging is censorship. More and more people are calling on videos to be flagged, taken down, etc — then we run into instances like this one where we wish the mechanism wasn't in place at all. I hope…

>I don't understand why that YouTube video requires age verification. As far as I know that prevents it from being played to anyone not logged in, including embeds, and severely limits people from seeing it. Yep. Usually, they play when changing from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yXTHODE24Q to https://www.youtube.com/embed/0yXTHODE24Q but not this. But youtube-dl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yXTHODE24Q works.…

Thanks. It's really obnoxious that they make you sign-in to verify your age, rather than just enter your birth date like some other sites. Especially since AFAIK it's impossible to create a Google account these days without giving them your phone number (thus exposing your identity). For politically sensitive videos such as this, such restrictions seem like a particularly bad idea.

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#743
post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It happened during an event sponsored by Blizzard. Player may have their opinions but they are paid (through prizes) and broadcast by Blizzard. It means that Blizzard gets to set the rules about what can be said. And in case it wasn't obvious, it is explicitly stated in the competition rules. There is a difference between tolerating Blitzchung's opinions and letting him hijack an interview to make a political stateme…

Doubt that would be justiciable in most countries, other wise you could sack a Premier league player because they supported a particular political party. Gaming companies cant set up pro leagues and treat players as if it was still football in the 1950's

Careful which examples you choose...

UK, 2018: Pep Guardiola has been fined £20,000 by the Football Association (FA) [..] after wearing a yellow ribbon supporting political prisoners in his native Catalonia.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/news/breaking-news-guardiola-...

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#744
post #644
post #139

Then we have to boycott Hearthstone. While the current case is neither surprising nor substantially important, it is important because of principle. Blizzard is not responsible for what players say in interviews. In our society, it still matters that people can tolerate other opinions. The Chinese government tries to make it a new normal that entire people can have their "feelings hurt" (what?) by mere non-insulting…

>Blizzard is not responsible for what players say in interviews. In our society, it still matters that people can tolerate other opinions. I think Blizzard has a legitimate "time and place" argument here. They shouldn't regulate competitors speech across the board but I think it's reasonable to mandate that interviews associated with official events focus on Hearthstone and stay away from controversial topics. Of cou…

According to arstechnica translated he shouted "Liberate Hong Kong, revolution of our age!" https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/10/blizzard-bans-pr...

I'd agree with a slap on the wrist. Like $500 fine or something. But forfeiting all winners and 12 month ban is insane.

Seems like Blizzard is pandering to China because they don't want locked out of the market.

Shame on them for enjoying democracy in their own country (US) but assisting with suppressing it in other countries for their own profit.

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is unfortunately a gaping hole where United States leadership should be and I don’t feel the companies or countries that used to be able to “follow the leader” have figured how to deal with it. Good on your paper for having the some fortitude.

> gaping hole where United States leadership should be I've seen this exact wording a lot recently. Is this the new propaganda line everyone parrots? I must have missed the previous administration's strong stance on ANYTHING AT ALL dealing with international relations, besides killing people from the sky. When did the previous administration lead on anything and not just bow down (literally bowing) to international l…

How about the Iran Nuclear deal? Or is that a bad example?

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#746
post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should all boycott Blizzard and the NBA.

After bnetd I boycotted Blizzard for years. The only tangible result was that I missed out on Warcraft 3. After the 1-click patent, I boycotted Amazon for years. They didn't appear to have missed my money. I'm all for collective action, but I'm not sure if boycotts are reliable. I've seen companies respond to social pressures, but like net neutrality, when they can make money they just try again more subtilely, and t…

Boycotting is the ethical thing to do but it almost never works. What works? I guess the same things that worked for women and blacks - enough people willing to stick their necks out and organise politically.

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#747

A lot of comments here seem to take as a given that banning any offensive speech in any forum leads inexorably to situations like this, where the "offensive speech" is political speech offensive to an authoritarian government. But this implies that it's impossible to distinguish between different kinds of "offensive" speech based on any meaningful criteria whatsoever, and this just seems to be fundamentally incorrect…

Chinese feelings towards Hong Kong arise out of a history of subjugation by the British. The Opium Wars devastated China's economy and sovereignty, including the British forcing them to cede Hong Kong. This was the beginning of the "century of humiliation": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation

It's not just the authoritarian government that is angered, it is the people of China who remember this history of imperialism and domination. Before the first Opium War, China's economy was the largest in the world. Is has only recently begun to recover: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Maddison_statistics_of_t...

Everyone has a story about why they are oppressed. Who is oppressed and who are oppressors? What actions are oppressive, and which are not? Free speech is necessary as a way of litigating these very questions.

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#748

It's really hard to tell the difference between what is genuinely offensive and what is not. No easy answers. In this case, maybe there is a relatively simple rule: Supporting democracy must not in itself be regarded as offensive...

I think perhaps the more important point is that one should not be prevented from voicing an offensive opinion. If you look very hard in an extremely boring place, e.g. a phone directory, you might just by chance perhaps find something that won't be offensive to anyone on this Earth. Outside of contrived scenarios, the moment we let "being offended" be the watermark of censoring ideas, we might as well pack up the id…

I agree in principle, although in practice this is impossible to be preached. In China it's that political opinions aren't tolerated, especially anything that notes on the edge of separatism. In America it's the same, certain racial, gender chats are simply taboo, whether it's personal or national level. While there is no explicit governmental prosecution, you can be sure that you'll be punished in a way.

The idea is that in America such topics are prohibits because there is the idea of historical injustice and bringing everyone to a fair level for a "better society" (very well-intended). It is no different in China when political topics bring an uprising flux of emotion from within the Chinese people (also very well-intended in the context of Chinese legacy). There is no fundamental difference, only a difference in how the freedom of expression is backed by historical context and reigning ideology.

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the NBA ... so publicly siding with Beijing I must have missed something, because all the coverage I have seen is of Adam Silver publicly supporting Morey and Tsai. Additionally, the Nets cancelled a media event in Shanghai over this.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21184008

Doesn't look like he's siding with Beijing at all.

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1181497808563658752

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrY6bKFVD3Q&feature=youtu.be...

https://streamable.com/b7ifu

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#750

It's a shame but I feel like the majority of gamers won't care. They'll either be ignorant of this or they'll just shrug and continue playing. I boycotted Activision and by proxy Blizzard when Activision acquired them a long time ago but their continuing success shows I'm part of an extremely tiny minority.

> I feel like the majority of gamers won't care The simultaneity of the NBA and now Blizzard so publicly siding with Beijing may elevate this out of the realm of commercial issues (subject to boycotts) into a political one.

Doesn't look like he's siding with Beijing at all.

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1181497808563658752

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrY6bKFVD3Q&feature=youtu.be...

https://streamable.com/b7ifu

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