Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments • Hacker News Board

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#721

Post by hannasanarion » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

colorincorrect wrote: post #713

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #613

A lot of comments here seem to take as a given that banning any offensive speech in any forum leads inexorably to situations like this, where the "offensive speech" is political speech offensive to an authoritarian government. But this implies that it's impossible to distinguish between different kinds of "offensive" speech based on any meaningful criteria whatsoever, and this just seems to be fundamentally incorrect…

>These are not incredibly difficult to distinguish between this is fundamentally misguided. who gets to judge who is the marginalized individual? global geopolitics is more complicated than there being strict good actors and bad actors

"Are they being shot at by police, or are they police shooting at people" is a good place to start.

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#722

Post by bArray » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

erikpukinskis wrote: post #653

bArray wrote: post #590

> Engaging in any act that, in Blizzard’s sole discretion, brings you > into public disrepute, offends a portion or group of the public, or > otherwise damages Blizzard image will result in removal from > Grandmasters and reduction of the player’s prize total to $0 USD, in > addition to other remedies which may be provided for under the > Handbook and Blizzard’s Website Terms. This is why "cancel culture" needs to en…

> This is why "cancel culture" needs to end, companies simply shouldn't be getting involved in the speech of an individual. Wait, are you saying there’s nothing anyone could say to you that would make you not want to work with them? As long as it’s “just words” you welcome it in your workplace? There’s no level of verbal abuse that you consider grounds for dismissal?

> Wait, are you saying there’s nothing anyone could say to

> you that would make you not want to work with them?

I am human, of course I can be personally offended. But if I had some fair competition and the winner happened to disagree with my political leanings, it's tough cheese. The moment your company becomes political, there is an expectation that they react to every single outrage. No sane person would link the beliefs of the rightful winner to the companies public facing ethics, but, if you continuously inject yourself in such matters, it becomes expected of you.

> As long as it’s “just words” you welcome it in your

> workplace?

> There’s no level of verbal abuse that you consider grounds

> for dismissal?

The work place is something different, there is an agreed etiquette which is there to ensure productivity. Employees can typically bring their personal lives into the office up until the point it causes disruption.

I've been in a high stress work place with people verbally abusing each other. It could have been grounds for firing, but it was resolved by simply taking them aside and talking with them. In other cases I've had quite interesting discussions in a coffee break about politics that I didn't agree with. None of these cases reflected on the company itself and neither of these cases I would expect the company to weigh in on.

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#723

Post by bena » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 4:58 PM UTC

Aunche wrote: post #659

C1sc0cat wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubt that would be justiciable in most countries, other wise you could sack a Premier league player because they supported a particular political party. Gaming companies cant set up pro leagues and treat players as if it was still football in the 1950's

The NFL suspended Colin Kaepernick for kneeling during the national anthem. That's mild compared hijacking a speech with a gasmask and calling for revolution.

Kaepernick was not suspended by the NFL at any point during the anthem protests. Neither was he fined. There is nothing in the NFL rulebook about what you should do during the anthem.

Kaepernick suspects that his activism is the reason no team has signed him since he became a free agent. And he may be right. But he was not fired, suspended, or in any way punished officially for what he did.

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#724

Post by theseadroid » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 4:58 PM UTC

a_c wrote: post #477

Interesting how an incidence in gaming garner more eye balls on the topic of Hong Kong politics than whole month combined. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... Good for the people of Hong Kong. The topic of Hong Kong didn't struck me as sensational/desperate as it deserves until a Hong Kong friend send me this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yXTHODE24Q Am moved by the clip, especial…

Sorry for not entirely related to the main thread, but since it seems there are many people in this thread knowledgable on what's going on in Hong Kong, I'd like to ask 2 questions. I'm not siding with CCP, but my issue is I'm not sure I can side with the protestors either. Because

1. Does the protestors representing the majority of citizens? If yes at this stage why the working class in Hong Kong hasn't started long term strike yet? I would imagine that the most effective non violence method of protesting by citizens would be stop working. That would for one stop the tax flow to the government.

2. Is it necessary for protestors to be violent against pro-China civilians/properties? I'm aware that the protestors have been subject to violence from both police and mobs alike, but fighting for democracy should be a higher cause than revenge? Aren't they fight for freedom of speech among others? Or it's just freedom for themselves and violence and totalitarianism for who else disagrees? [1]

Again I love freedom to the point I've spent many years fighting it for myself and helped a few people. I support Taiwan to be an independent country. But we all know many bad things have been committed under the name of freedom as well. Now I'm not sure if the Hong Kong protestors are fighting under the name of freedom to actually express their hatred toward mainlanders? Thanks for reading and hope my questions would not offend anyone. Just would like to understand the situation better.

Edit: some explanations on the downvotes would be nice.

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-GR88q8pIw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPYuGYLesx0 (the planting of CCP flag near the end is really distasteful for me)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NFb2chXt9k

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3031906.... (trashing trains while passengers still inside)

(Toby Guu is a Canadian software developer)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Jgp7-tXfc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFwGqF3QlVc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcw7lcZA7SE

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#725

Post by streb-lo » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

rcoveson wrote: post #706

streb-lo wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate-speech laws exist because people are programmable. Try and tell me your opinions are your own and the books and media you consume do not own some portion of them. Hate-speech laws exist to prevent the programming of people to systematically hate and exterminate other people, a lesson that has been learned many times over in history.

> ...people are programmable. This particular cynicism justifies far too much. A liberal (as in liberty) society must trust the super-majority of its population to agree on and uphold its ethical foundations. Policing hate speech weakens one of those foundations no matter how you justify it, but if you justify it by saying "people are programmable and so can't be trusted to hear what hateful people have to say," it w…

> A huge percentage of our speech is attempted "programming."

I absolutely agree. I'm not saying ban hate speech because its programming -- I'm saying ban it because it's evil and effective.

It's morally reprehensible to defend the existence of advocating for racial superiority when we have witnessed hundreds of times where that leads to genocide.

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#726

Post by netule » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

luckylion wrote: post #591

wbl wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lootboxes are one thing. But I doubt an aircraft simulator with a Taiwan Straits scenario would be massively published, or a Wolfenstein set in a Xinjiang reeducation camp. Would Amazon stop selling 1984 if China asked it to? Hopefully not.

Amazon will not only stop stelling 1984, they will even remote-wipe 1984 from their customer's devices, all you need is a copyright claim. Jokes aside, I believe they would if China was a large enough market for them. They are complying with local laws, and often that means pulling a product world wide, because they don't want to go through the trouble of making sure it's only unavailable in the US. Since Amazon has…

This exact scenario actually happened in 2009: https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18am...

Irony of ironies.

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#727

Post by isthisreality » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

papreclip wrote: post #642

megous wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called trade. US americans send $ to China for cheap goods and manufacturing, Now, Chinese have $ to spend in the US. Not really scary. It's better for superpowers to have intertwined economies, rather than be isolated. Less incentives for conquest and war.

This is conquest. The chinese are gradually accumulating wealth and control in our country. Their laws prohibit foreigners from doing the same in their country. I can have a chinese landlord gouging me for west coast rent but can never be a landlord in china.

I find it suspicious that silent conquest of this kind is not spoken about more in politics. It's a very real threat to US sovereignty, especially with superpowers like China and Israel.

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#728

Post by darkarmani » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

iamsb wrote: post #694

zwaps wrote: post #139

Then we have to boycott Hearthstone. While the current case is neither surprising nor substantially important, it is important because of principle. Blizzard is not responsible for what players say in interviews. In our society, it still matters that people can tolerate other opinions. The Chinese government tries to make it a new normal that entire people can have their "feelings hurt" (what?) by mere non-insulting…

Would you oppose firing of James Damore as well? Look I understand that we need to have free expression and free speech. Absolutely. But a business wants to protect itself from negative political reputation. If the gamer was talking about say LGBT rights, and his opinions were considered against the current acceptable position on the matter, and then he was banned, I am sure everyone would have applauded blizzard. Le…

> Let us not put burden of being politically correct on free market corporations.

Isn't that what blizz just did? They were worried about political correctness so they banned someone?

> his opinions were considered against the current acceptable position on the matter, and then he was banned, I am sure everyone would have applauded blizzard.

Why are you so sure of this?

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#729

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

dontreact wrote: post #715

iamsb wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you oppose firing of James Damore as well? Look I understand that we need to have free expression and free speech. Absolutely. But a business wants to protect itself from negative political reputation. If the gamer was talking about say LGBT rights, and his opinions were considered against the current acceptable position on the matter, and then he was banned, I am sure everyone would have applauded blizzard. Le…

Supporting HK protests is very different from falsely claiming that the hiring bar was lowered for women (it said this in the doc, I know enough people at Google who participate in hiring committee to know that it was a false statement).

[deleted]

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#730

Post by philipov » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

ergothus wrote: post #680

joelx wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should all boycott Blizzard and the NBA.

After bnetd I boycotted Blizzard for years. The only tangible result was that I missed out on Warcraft 3. After the 1-click patent, I boycotted Amazon for years. They didn't appear to have missed my money. I'm all for collective action, but I'm not sure if boycotts are reliable. I've seen companies respond to social pressures, but like net neutrality, when they can make money they just try again more subtilely, and t…

Boycotts only work when a reasonable number of people can make an impact on the bottom line of a corporation. Corporations have grown so large that the size of the group necessary to make that kind of impact is as large as a large corporation. Viral social media witch hunts can have that kind of impact, so if you want to organize a boycott, you better hire a PR company.