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Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

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Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#651

Post by apostacy »

dirtyid wrote: post #544
apostacy wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Western companies simply gave up and didn't learn how to scale content moderation until the last few years when social media had to deal with the same violent extremism that China did during the Tibetan and XinJiang riots that lead to FB/Twitter ban. As evidenced by current Youtube debacles, Google still can't / refuse to get human content control right. First of all, I don't want them to do "human content control"…

The reality that is western social media has been increasingly censorial in the last couple years on a range of issues, particularly extremism, validating the Chinese approach which any reasonable evaluation would conclude has been prescient in retrospect. Arab Spring, Jasmine Revolution, Rohingya genocide, Hindu nationalist slayings, mass shootings, that is cost of exporting unfettered social media that I also enjoy…

I am really only concerned about these issues as they affect my country, The United States.

Different nations have different ways of doing things. The policies that they have in China might indeed be the best thing for them. But the only time I care is when American corporations start trying to do that.

I can not disagree about the Uyghur question. The melting pot policy is stupid and must end anyway because it will fail, as we are seeing in Europe. Hopefully it will burn itself out before too much damage is done. I actually feel guilty that these stupid immigration/integration concepts have been exported to other countries.

Calls within the United States for censorship are just flimsy pretexts for consolidation of power, and actually I think are less sincere than Chinese efforts for harmony. Mass shootings and other evils would not be significantly hampered by censorship. People saying that the internet has caused the rise of extremist terrorism are absolutely wrong. Just the last few weeks they kept going on and on about chaos that would happen from the Joker movie. It is nonsense. It is very hard to connect things said on the Internet to any real world deaths here. But I can see how in less stable countries, rumors and misinformation could lead to real problems. Maybe in a place like Indonesia or The Philippines they should censor misinformation, when there is a very real chance of conflict breaking out.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#652

Post by skrebbel »

taneq wrote: post #550
jdoliner wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on this framework it doesn't seem entirely clear to me Taiwan is a de facto nation. Do they have the monopoly on violence over their land? From my understanding (which admittedly isn't great) they at best of a duopoly on violence in their land shared with China, and China might have a better claim to that monopoly than they do. That being said, I completely agree with your broader point De Jure nationhood is a…

Using that argument, any country with a foreign military presence inside its borders isn't a country.

PRC doesn't have a military presence in Taiwan

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#653

Post by frankacter »

dang wrote: post #650
Galanwe wrote: post #647

Can anyone actually validate that this news is true? I live in Hong Kong and have the latest iOS updates. I still have the Taiwanese flag... same for all my colleagues, both on personal and work phones.

That's important. It would be dismaying if this story spent an entire day at #1 on Hacker News and turned out not to be true.

It affects device models with “CN” or with “ZA” set as region:

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/10/05/taiwan-flag-emoji-disa...

It is also limited to just the keyboard and not enforced in 3rd party apps or websites:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/7/20903613/apple-hiding-tai...

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#654

Post by Galanwe »

frankacter wrote: post #653
dang wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's important. It would be dismaying if this story spent an entire day at #1 on Hacker News and turned out not to be true.

It affects device models with “CN” or with “ZA” set as region: https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/10/05/taiwan-flag-emoji-disa... It is also limited to just the keyboard and not enforced in 3rd party apps or websites: https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/7/20903613/apple-hiding-tai...

How do you check this CN/ZA settings? I have an iPhone bought in HK, region set to “Hong Kong” (General -> Language & Region), iOS 13.1.2 and I see the Taiwanese flag in emojis. I test with the built in emoji keyboard in the “Notes” app.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#655

Post by frankacter »

Galanwe wrote: post #654
frankacter wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It affects device models with “CN” or with “ZA” set as region: https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/10/05/taiwan-flag-emoji-disa... It is also limited to just the keyboard and not enforced in 3rd party apps or websites: https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/7/20903613/apple-hiding-tai...

How do you check this CN/ZA settings? I have an iPhone bought in HK, region set to “Hong Kong” (General -> Language & Region), iOS 13.1.2 and I see the Taiwanese flag in emojis. I test with the built in emoji keyboard in the “Notes” app.

Our phones are Taiwan models and we can reproduce it. Which iPhone do you have? If it still has the ZP region for Hong Kong instead of ZA region it will not be impacted. More here on it:

https://hiraku.tw/2019/10/4855/

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#656

Post by dirtyid »

jjcc wrote: post #636
dirtyid wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is it really overblown? Think about it. The problem is people in the west can only "think about it" in western lens which leads to readily accessible Godwin's Law. Chinese mental schema is not preoccupied with Hitler, most Chinese aren't familiar with Nazi death camps and the ones that are, don't attribute any particular significance to them because China is a 5000 year old country with a long legacy of exterminatio…

Great insight although some information is missing like why the MingZu policy changed. At least you mentioned the old MingZu policy which most western journalists hide intentionally or unintentionally to match their narrative based on their beliefs. The real issue is quite complicated and might not be clear after decades.

Policy change was in response to violent 2008 Tibetan and 2009 Ürümqi / Uyghur riots (~200 deaths). The blame was placed on then relatively unfiltered western social networking sites which solidified ethic identity that was nominally accepted under old MingZu policy. In the case of Uyghurs, easy dissemination of foreign Islamic texts led to pockets of radicalization (Turkistan Islamic Party) turned violent extremism. Incidentally post riot was when Facebook and twitter was blocked. Western narrative was information control, but additional domestic rationale was to prevent escalation of violence since the riots targeted Han Chinese, and Han nationalists (who hated minority affirmative action privileges - we truthfully are cut from same cloth) were calling for violent retaliation. Basically, the CPC wanted to filter the internet to prevent race wars.

Twitter and Facebook took the moral high road only to be confronted with the same problems now and converging onto the same solutions. Anyway these incidents led Chinese thinkers to reexamine the ethnic policy based around oblast multiculturalism + carrots which was suppose to produce stability but ended up challenging serenity. Now the policy is forced integration via work camps. Somewhat tried and true. Chen QuanGuo was appointed Party Secretary of Tibet, he began security policies that enabled Tibet to see some of the highest GDP growth in the country. He was moved to Xinjiang a 5 years later to replicate his work, expanded the security architecture into the camps (however people want to label it) and increased anti-terrorism efforts. There's been no attacks since his reign, many before. Got promoted to political bureau member for his work.

MingZu policy change is not well known, mostly information disseminated between China scholars. TBH most western reporting on China is naive because western news room simply don't have sufficient assets covering China which is already a very difficult reporting environment. It doesn't help that foreign desks are full of white dudes who can't speak the language. Regardless, since the subject is justifiably mass human rights abuse, I think people don't really care about nuance even why something is happening, just that it is. Which is fair, you can't expect much on Chinese reporting when folks exposure to Chinese affairs outside of MSM are two youtubers playing the clickbait game. It's a ridiculous state of affairs.

I don't know about future timeline, Xinjiang is 7x larger than Tibet which took 5 years and is still ongoing. CPC probably hoping to do a reeducation "lite" policy in HK via CPC textbooks. They blame the current protests on a generation raised by British civics textbooks. I think the summation is, we focused too much on 2 systems instead of 1 country. Salad Bowl instead of melting pot.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#657

Post by Galanwe »

frankacter wrote: post #655
Galanwe wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you check this CN/ZA settings? I have an iPhone bought in HK, region set to “Hong Kong” (General -> Language & Region), iOS 13.1.2 and I see the Taiwanese flag in emojis. I test with the built in emoji keyboard in the “Notes” app.

Our phones are Taiwan models and we can reproduce it. Which iPhone do you have? If it still has the ZP region for Hong Kong instead of ZA region it will not be impacted. More here on it: https://hiraku.tw/2019/10/4855/

I see, I just checked, mine has the ZP region (Hong Kong & Macau), so that would explain why I still have the Taiwanese flag.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#658

Post by dang »

nailer wrote: post #17
milankragujevic wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if there was (I don't know, am not a HK lawyer), you would probably have a few problems if you complained about THAT exact feature being removed. Of course, this is just speculation on my part.

'One country two systems' as agreed to by the CCP under the Sino-British Joint Declaration, prior to the handover of Hong Kong, means that the PRC is only responsible for military defence of HK. Anyone who disagrees that 'one country two systems' applies in Hong Kong is accusing the CCP of lying. Which we know the CCP would never do. Edit: anyone who has spent time on HN in the last few years and commented on the act…

That last bit breaks the HN guidelines badly. Would you please re-read them and follow them?

Such cheap accusations of brigading get made all the time from both sides and have proven to be completely unreliable.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#660

Post by dirtyid »

apostacy wrote: post #651
dirtyid wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality that is western social media has been increasingly censorial in the last couple years on a range of issues, particularly extremism, validating the Chinese approach which any reasonable evaluation would conclude has been prescient in retrospect. Arab Spring, Jasmine Revolution, Rohingya genocide, Hindu nationalist slayings, mass shootings, that is cost of exporting unfettered social media that I also enjoy…

I am really only concerned about these issues as they affect my country, The United States. Different nations have different ways of doing things. The policies that they have in China might indeed be the best thing for them. But the only time I care is when American corporations start trying to do that. I can not disagree about the Uyghur question. The melting pot policy is stupid and must end anyway because it will…

Yes, I think different countries require different solutions during different stages of development and threat. US media environment and online culture does magnify and sensationalize statistically insignificant threats. I like to think we have a slightly healthier media environment in Canada, but people here seems irritatingly OK with censorship as well. Aat the end of the day, it's up to the west who values things like freedom of speech to produce a working alternative for the world to emulate. But given how things are going, I don't see anything forth coming. It's crazy how society is shaped by .01% of self-selected active online participants. I was hoping divisive culture war is just part of the growing pains of first wave of ubiquitous inter-connectivity, that people will get fatigued and adjust their behaviors eventually, a regression to mean of common decency. But it's been years and it looks like eternal September really is eternal.
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