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Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

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Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#631

Post by Analemma_ »

everdev wrote: post #564
yungcoder wrote: post #511

Between this and the NBA's capitulation to making the Rockets' GM retract his statements on Hong Kong, at what point does appeasement just become acceptance of China's behavior? Sure, from the individual business' perspective they don't want to risk alienating the Chinese government and losing the Chinese market, but if China sees that they can get their way by simply threatening foreign companies then it will just e…

> at what point does appeasement just become acceptance of China's behavior? This seems to be US policy since Nixon's visit to China. The difference is now we're just more open about it.

I think this is as much a "business thing" as a "US policy" thing, and it's been going on much longer than the Nixon administration. IBM sold Nazi Germany the tabulators that powered the Holocaust, Chiquita (then United Fruit) ran slave plantations well into the 50's, et cetera.

Don't expect corporations to stand up for what's right, especially overseas; you're always going to be disappointed.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#632

Post by tjpnz »

b88d80170 wrote: post #549
bigpumpkin wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, did not hear about the Rockets thing until now. Thanks. I am confused tho, as an NBA fan, should I support the Rockets now that the Chinese are boycotting it. Or should I boycott them cause they bowed down to Chinese pressure?

People really don't care.

And until people do corporations will continue to enact censorship on behalf of the CCP.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#633

Post by hamilyon2 »

yungcoder wrote: post #511

Between this and the NBA's capitulation to making the Rockets' GM retract his statements on Hong Kong, at what point does appeasement just become acceptance of China's behavior? Sure, from the individual business' perspective they don't want to risk alienating the Chinese government and losing the Chinese market, but if China sees that they can get their way by simply threatening foreign companies then it will just e…

As far as I remember, Germany in 30-s was underdog, deprived of colonies, territories, with failing economy and zero weight in international relations.

China is actual, undisputed world leader. They don't tolerate other nations telling them what to do on their land, and like economical expansion to neighbor states. They can afford it.

I don't see parallels.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#634

Post by vore »

Aeolun wrote: post #520
jasonjei wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not very true. Taiwan, Republic of China, has made attempts to change its name, only to be met with the threat of war from the People’s Republic of China if they perform a name change to Republic of Taiwan.

I think it’s about time China gets the chance to make good on this promise, or gets defanged when it turns out they don’t have the stomach for it (they have a good thing going, shame to let it be ruined by war). Everyone is tiptoeing around them for fear of waking the dragon.

An uneasy peace is miles better than war.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#635

Post by lainga »

Causality1 wrote: post #603
everdev wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at what point does appeasement just become acceptance of China's behavior? This seems to be US policy since Nixon's visit to China. The difference is now we're just more open about it.

Someday we may regard those "achievements" as the worst strategic mistake by any sitting US president.

It wasn't a one-and-done deal between Kissinger and Mao on the first visit. While I think it's fair to assess the US's 1972-(2016? 2017?) policy toward China as regrettable overall, blame must also be put on the Carter (giving the PRC a waiver on the Jackson-Vanik amendment, 1980), Reagan (continuing those waivers), Bush Sr. (rejecting repeated Congressional motions to end that waiver after Tiananmen Square, 1989 and every year of the '90s), and Clinton (permanent normal trade relations, 2000) administrations. Successive administrations seemed to be fairly consistent on keeping China's access to US and world markets intact.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#636

Post by jjcc »

dirtyid wrote: post #596
scrollaway wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really overblown? Think about it. It's not like Nazi germany only had followers because they were being mind-controlled. They were slow-boiling the frog back then as well and those who didn't want to notice could easily justify everything. Well, sure, nazi germany ran concentration camps, keeping hundreds of thousands prisoner based on ethnicity and religion. It's not like China is doing that after all… … right…

>Is it really overblown? Think about it. The problem is people in the west can only "think about it" in western lens which leads to readily accessible Godwin's Law. Chinese mental schema is not preoccupied with Hitler, most Chinese aren't familiar with Nazi death camps and the ones that are, don't attribute any particular significance to them because China is a 5000 year old country with a long legacy of exterminatio…

Great insight although some information is missing like why the MingZu policy changed. At least you mentioned the old MingZu policy which most western journalists hide intentionally or unintentionally to match their narrative based on their beliefs. The real issue is quite complicated and might not be clear after decades.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#637

Post by SyneRyder »

RavlaAlvar wrote: post #592
yungcoder wrote: post #511

Between this and the NBA's capitulation to making the Rockets' GM retract his statements on Hong Kong, at what point does appeasement just become acceptance of China's behavior? Sure, from the individual business' perspective they don't want to risk alienating the Chinese government and losing the Chinese market, but if China sees that they can get their way by simply threatening foreign companies then it will just e…

I can totally imagine the world which China could control the west through exerting pressure on these giant companies.

China is already doing this. They threatened Qantas, Delta and other airlines that they would ban their aircraft from Chinese airspace unless their websites were changed to show Taiwan as part of China. They also blocked the Marriott website in China when Marriott included Taiwan as a separate country in a customer questionnaire.

[1] https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/qant...

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#638

Post by howtofly »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #427

The whole "unrecognised country" nonsense should begone. Everybody knows Taiwan is a distinct country (and does a reasonable job of being a decent country for the people living in it, it obviously is a better country than a number of completely recognized ones) yet it still has "limited recognition". How about recognizing the facts rather than virtual reality of politicians' imagination? Banning an entire country is…

"Everybody knows Taiwan is a distinct country"

Really? Does your government officially call Taiwan "a country"? Show us the proof. Considering only 15 countries in this universe still do this, it's almost safe to guess NO.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#639

Post by natalyarostova »

spats1990 wrote: post #538
yungcoder wrote: post #511

Between this and the NBA's capitulation to making the Rockets' GM retract his statements on Hong Kong, at what point does appeasement just become acceptance of China's behavior? Sure, from the individual business' perspective they don't want to risk alienating the Chinese government and losing the Chinese market, but if China sees that they can get their way by simply threatening foreign companies then it will just e…

If you think 2019 China is that similar to 1930s Germany you should just come right out and say it, in my opinion. Let that argument stand on its merits. If you didn't intend a parallel between 1930s Germany and 2019 China, there is, again in my opinion only, probably a better way of making your point.

Most people only know a few historical events, so the ww2 Germany one makes frequent appearances since it's one of the few most people know. Obviously is a horrible historical analogy for anyone mildly historically literate.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#640

Post by kerkeslager »

busterarm wrote: post #498
IIAOPSW wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

De Jure nationhood is a stupid game that ignores facts on the ground in favor of politicians vision. It is predicated on a fallacy that "legitimacy" is a vital resource and that those already in the nation club have a monopoly on it. At this point calling groups "countries" and calling other groups "terrorists" is better understood as the geopolitical equivalent of a curse word and/or a propaganda trope. -Order of Ma…

-ISIS. At their peak they had a sizeable chunk of land, a flag, a capital, civic functions like a court system, an oil industry, handed out passports, were fighting a conventional land war using conventional (not terrorist/guerilla) tactics, had a uniformed army, and the word "state" was right there in the name. But don't you dare call them a state lest someone mistake you for a terrorist sympathizer. That's playing…

> ISIS conducted public executions, crucifixions, desecration of cultural sites and enslaved people for a labor force. That's textbook asymmetric warfare/terrorism.

The US has done all of these except crucifixions. Arguably, we've done all of them (except crucifixion) within the last decade. I'm not sure we can claim "not crucifying" as moral high ground when Americans did things like the following (warning: what follows is horrifying):

"He was chained by his neck and dragged out of the county court by observers. He was then paraded through the street, all while being stabbed and beaten, before being held down and castrated. He was then lynched in front of Waco's city hall."

"Over 10,000 spectators, including city officials and police, gathered to watch the attack. There was a celebratory atmosphere among whites at the spectacle murder, and many children attended during their lunch hour. Members of the mob cut off his fingers, and hung him over a bonfire after saturating him with coal oil. He was repeatedly lowered and raised over the fire for about two hours. After the fire was extinguished, his charred torso was dragged through the town and parts of his body were sold as souvenirs. A professional photographer took pictures as the event unfolded, providing rare imagery of a lynching in progress. The pictures were printed and sold as postcards in Waco."[1]

This happened in 1916--most would consider the US to have been a nation for over a century by this point.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_of_Jesse_Washington

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