The Troubling Economics of Food Halls • Hacker News Board

Re: The Troubling Economics of Food Halls

#41

Post by ghaff » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:09 PM UTC

wenc wrote: post #39

I've often wondered if a low-end food hall might be a good business idea in the U.S. In many parts of Asia, there's the concept of the "hawker center" [1] where food vendors each occupy a single stall and sell particular types of food (specific dishes) at low prices. Many of these businesses are intergenerational, so the food is refined over decades. The quality of the food is usually very high despite the dishes bei…

Low-end food courts are extremely common in the US. There's probably one in just about any mall. The problem is that low-end food court in the US mostly translates into fast food chains which are mostly... not very good.

I expect you'd need a culture that was more open to low-cost non-branded ethnic cuisines. You have it to some degree here and there. Food trucks (though those are often a bit higher price point), international food stalls at outdoor events. But hawker centers (which are one of the things I love about Singapore) are probably tough to transport to a lot of other situations--though you do have good street food in a lot of places in Asia.

Re: The Troubling Economics of Food Halls

#42

Post by awillen » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 8:01 PM UTC

phkahler wrote: post #19

ec109685 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact he has a sweetheart deal from the city and is allowed to own the only bar in the hall and keep all its profits has the real risk of him making all the money at the expense of all the other stalls.

He's also paying 5k per month to lease the building and collecting almost 10x that much in rent from the others. A better solution might be to form some kind of collective/group to lease the facility at no profit. Like a condo association of sorts. It's obvious these people are working for someone else.

But the issue is that putting together a collective to lease the facility at no profit plus take over everything else he's doing (finding insurance, handling janitorial and maintenance work, marketing, etc.) is a lot of work, and it's work that aspiring chefs don't necessarily want to focus their time on. That's why they come - he's providing a lot of value. Whether you think the amount of value is worth what they're paying is up to you, but the fact that he's still able to find tenants says that a lot of people think the tradeoff of not having to worry about all those ancillary things is worth the money.

Re: The Troubling Economics of Food Halls

#43

Post by jacquesc » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 11:02 PM UTC

hadlock wrote: post #40

Pxtl wrote: post #24

I've literally never seen one of these - are they the new thing? Sounds like an upscale hipster version of a mall food court. No surprise that owners are looking to hold the vendors over a barrel - everybody sees dollar-signs at being able to capture upscale dollars with "rustic" setting. I mean, we have an indoor farmer's market with eateries in it in my city, and of course it is a popular destination for hipsters.…

Food halls are typically in large urban areas with a thriving tourist industry that can support them outside of typical lunch hours. I have seen them in Portland, San Francisco, etc.

I wish SF still had a decent food hall. Used to love "The Hall" on market, but that place was only temporary as they demolished the space to build condos.

It was in a terrible part of town (south end of Tenderloin), but I ventured there because of it. Now I actively avoid that area.

Re: The Troubling Economics of Food Halls

#44

Post by phkahler » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 3:13 PM UTC

awillen wrote: post #42

phkahler wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's also paying 5k per month to lease the building and collecting almost 10x that much in rent from the others. A better solution might be to form some kind of collective/group to lease the facility at no profit. Like a condo association of sorts. It's obvious these people are working for someone else.

But the issue is that putting together a collective to lease the facility at no profit plus take over everything else he's doing (finding insurance, handling janitorial and maintenance work, marketing, etc.) is a lot of work, and it's work that aspiring chefs don't necessarily want to focus their time on. That's why they come - he's providing a lot of value. Whether you think the amount of value is worth what they're…

The group could hire people for some of those things. The other guy certainly does.

Most dentists have had to figure out how to run a business. At some point these chefs have to decide weather they are owning a business or just cooking. This situation allowed them to confuse the two.

Re: The Troubling Economics of Food Halls

#45

Post by mikestew » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 3:16 PM UTC

RandallBrown wrote: post #31

mikestew wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I recall, Starbucks actually looked into doing some sort of wine bar transformation in the evenings at some locations. They implemented in at least one store in a Seattle suburb. I'm not a wine drinker, so I just know they had a flyer for it a few years ago. I don't know if it is still on-going. But your point stands: I don't know that one can flip baristas to sommeliers with a switch at 5:00. So is there a shift…

I'm not sure about any Starbucks that transform into a wine bar, but several of their Reserve locations do serve alcohol.

Now that you bring up specifics, I would believe you are correct. My fuzzy memory kinda confirms that it's more "you can have a glass of wine...or not" rather than "no coffee, only booze".