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Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

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Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#321

Post by milankragujevic »

rdbell wrote: post #269
milankragujevic wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, AFAIK my blog isn't. Yet. I get visitors from China on my post about controlling the world's cheapest quadcopter from a PC via arduino and nrf24l01+... edit: I just checked, it's accessible from mainland China, though quite slow.

If anyone else wants to check their website's accessibility from China, I run a service that lets developers proxy HTTP requests through real Chinese (and worldwide) residential ISP customers: https://packetstream.io We have a worldwide network of real users that install a relay app on win/mac and we proxy customer requests through their home ISP connections like this: ``` developer@Developers-MacBook-Pro-2:~% curl -…

Oh wow that's an excellent service. Especially given the fact you provide access to actual Chinese network endpoints.

Please post the link again, this time as a Show HN link-post and put the text description as the first comment (I've noticed that increases chances of success. ) (given the fact your previous post from 6 months ago didn't get any traction). Of course, if you want.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#322

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

organsnyder wrote: post #185
tibbon wrote: post #182

What's it take for an engineer in the US to actually do something like this? If my boss/product manager wanted me to do something like this, I'd be calling them out for shitty politics, and telling them they need to find a new engineer because I'd quit immediately - and likely incite others to come with me. Maybe I have a higher sense of morality than others, but I'm no shill for China's power over Taiwan. I can use…

Perhaps that engineer had a baby on the way and was terrified of losing health coverage, or was in the United States on an H1B visa and was afraid they'd be deported... I'd probably have made the same decision as you (I'm fortunate to have a safety net), but many people don't have that luxury.

Doesn't Apple employ software engineers in China?

https://jobs.apple.com/en-us/search?location=china-CHNC&page...

Is it reasonable to believe Apple might have signed that task to a team sympathetic to the One-China policy, or just generally someone who was happy to do it?

Why do people think there was some sort of circumstance that caused the engineer to compromise on their morals?

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#323

Post by hellllllllooo »

thrownaway954 wrote: post #296
tibbon wrote: post #182

What's it take for an engineer in the US to actually do something like this? If my boss/product manager wanted me to do something like this, I'd be calling them out for shitty politics, and telling them they need to find a new engineer because I'd quit immediately - and likely incite others to come with me. Maybe I have a higher sense of morality than others, but I'm no shill for China's power over Taiwan. I can use…

OR... maybe the engineer doesn't give two sh*ts about politics and just wanted to give the task done and move on to something else. Not everyone cares about what is political or going on in the world. I'm glad you have this holy than thou attitude, but most could care less.

Yes. That's exactly what OP is highlighting and that not giving two shits is the problem.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#324

Post by chrischen »

China executes an official Taiwan belongs to China stance to save face, as communist bureaucracies love to do.

In practice, their official policy lets Taiwan exist as an independently governed region more than the US even allows Hawaii or Cuba to be independent. Even Canada has more of a attachment to the US and its laws than Taiwan does.

This is probably a fact lost on most foreigners unaware of the situation.

If China really wanted to assimilate Taiwan they would not have such deeply connected bilateral trade, cross-border tourism, or give access to their market by Taiwanese companies like Foxconn, HTC, Asus, and hundreds more.

China does impose tourism restrictions to pressure Taiwan, but if they really wanted to crush Taiwan they can easily do so without raising so much as a hand gun.

The funny thing is armchair Chinese nationalists (people on the other side of the planet reading hacker news) are more up in arms about this than actual Taiwanese people because the de-jure stance has always been like this, and the de-facto independence of Taiwan has been pretty stable.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#325

Post by nacho_weekend »

tibbon wrote: post #182

What's it take for an engineer in the US to actually do something like this? If my boss/product manager wanted me to do something like this, I'd be calling them out for shitty politics, and telling them they need to find a new engineer because I'd quit immediately - and likely incite others to come with me. Maybe I have a higher sense of morality than others, but I'm no shill for China's power over Taiwan. I can use…

I work at an ecommerce company and we have to do something similar for displaying Taiwanese flag icons and refer to countries as “regions” as to not piss off China. Its the deal with the devil you make when you work on an international scale, and unfortunately making some small time political message will hurt your bottom line if the Chinese market share is taken away from your customer base. Unfortunate but it’s just economics. Not sure if it’s 1-to-1 with the Apple situation but it’s my anecdote.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#326

Post by reaperducer »

bearcobra wrote: post #317
reaperducer wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No he cannot Sure he can. Google bailed on China once. Apple certainly has the money and talent to do the same. He would be immediately removed at CEO and replaced with someone who played ball. Would he? Why do you assume that this would be bad for it share price, or that the majority of shareholders would be against it?

Unlike Google, Apple is hardware company and has a massive amount of manufacturing in China. It would be almost impossible for them to bail on that infrastructure.

Not really. Apple just has to do it in phases. No one is suggesting that Apple leave China overnight.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#327

Post by reddog »

organsnyder wrote: post #185
tibbon wrote: post #182

What's it take for an engineer in the US to actually do something like this? If my boss/product manager wanted me to do something like this, I'd be calling them out for shitty politics, and telling them they need to find a new engineer because I'd quit immediately - and likely incite others to come with me. Maybe I have a higher sense of morality than others, but I'm no shill for China's power over Taiwan. I can use…

Perhaps that engineer had a baby on the way and was terrified of losing health coverage, or was in the United States on an H1B visa and was afraid they'd be deported... I'd probably have made the same decision as you (I'm fortunate to have a safety net), but many people don't have that luxury.

Christopher Buckley called this 'the yuppie Nuremberg defense'.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#328

Post by munchbunny »

reaperducer wrote: post #274
organsnyder wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps that engineer had a baby on the way and was terrified of losing health coverage, or was in the United States on an H1B visa and was afraid they'd be deported... I'd probably have made the same decision as you (I'm fortunate to have a safety net), but many people don't have that luxury.

Perhaps that engineer had a baby on the way and was terrified of losing health coverage, or was in the United States on an H1B visa and was afraid they'd be deported... I believe the applicable phrase here is "courage of your convictions." I've been fired twice for refusing to do things that I thought were unethical. Neither time did I have a safety net ready. But my life still continued. A few years ago I stood up t…

Neither time did I have a safety net ready. But my life still continued.

Did you mean safety net as in another job lined up or substantial personal savings? Having a safety net generally means that your situation might be tough but you're okay if you quit/lose your job.

Getting deported because of your H1B would be an example of "doesn't have a safety net". The definition has gray area (such as if your family in your birth country is rich), but as a rule of thumb if deportation is the likely outcome, then you don't have a safety net.

IF you are an immigrant family, this is a trolley problem. Regardless of the courage of your convictions, you are making a choice for not just yourself, but your spouse and kids. It's not purely your own choice.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#329

Post by reaperducer »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #320
reaperducer wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No he cannot Sure he can. Google bailed on China once. Apple certainly has the money and talent to do the same. He would be immediately removed at CEO and replaced with someone who played ball. Would he? Why do you assume that this would be bad for it share price, or that the majority of shareholders would be against it?

> Sure he can. Google bailed on China once. Apple certainly has the money and talent to do the same. Google didn't have much of any foothold into China when it dropped. It was also purely based on software which can be toggled off relatively easy (then you just have to wind down offices). All of Apple's products require China to produce. All of them . > Would he? Why do you assume that this would be bad for it share…

All of Apple's products require China to produce

Today. But maybe not tomorrow. India, Vietnam, Brazil, and a dozen other countries are more than willing to take on that production. Heck, most of Apple's contractors in China (think Foxconn) already have manufacturing in other countries.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#330

Post by chrischen »

jefe_ wrote: post #301

The craziest part of this article is the note at the end about airlines being forced to remove mention of Taiwan in order to do business in China. Went to Delta website to find a flight to Taipei, and sure enough every stop of trip lists city, state/country and for Taipei is just says: Taipei, According to the article, even this is still 'out of compliance,' because it should say 'Taipei, Taiwan China,' blown away th…

I don’t see what the big deal is. Taiwan’s own passports say China on them.
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